netsuke and sagemono lounge : Disclaimer - Please click anywhere on this bar to expand/contract the content.

Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

A place to discuss and share other forms of sagemono such as Inro, Pipe Cases etc
User avatar
souldeep
Posts: 3559
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: London

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby souldeep » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:38 pm

neilholton wrote:but I do think these were made for an emerging smoking clientelle, who were Japanese but just didn’t have Shibui taste…

Subjectively, I much prefer your idea :)

A lot of work and effort must have gone into that level of hand carved detail around the case. To see a wealth of examples in the western market today, suggests there was a substantial demand from some group, somewhere, for this style of case.

neilholton wrote:Export is certainly not a negative in some areas of Japanese art but for me in netsuke-art, it does represent a very greyish area.

Good point. In the netsuke world it is usually used to denote some form of negative connotation. Subsequently the term can easily place someone on the back heel. I'll keep that in mind going forward.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

User avatar
souldeep
Posts: 3559
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: London

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby souldeep » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:47 pm

mss wrote:
souldeep quote: "... I look at these more as export pipe cases. They tend to be quite busy, usually rendered in stag, and late 19th."

The stag pieces pictured fit this definition.


I look like I'm trying to argue for the sake of argument here, I promise that's not the case (pun intended).

I cannot see that your pipecase with a man and boy fits the busy style I've mentioned, or equally, as an item of simple work. I personally find this case quite attractive. Is that a balloon rising up on the upper right of the man and child? I've never seen that before. Kites yes, balloons no. I wonder the full subject of your case?
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

mss
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: Florida, South Carolina, USA

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby mss » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:34 pm

souldeep wrote:"I cannot see that your pipecase with a man and boy fits the busy style I've mentioned, or equally, as an item of simple work. I personally find this case quite attractive. Is that a balloon rising up on the upper right of the man and child? I've never seen that before. Kites yes, balloons no. I wonder the full subject of your case?"

When I first saw this case, I thought it was an allusion to Shaen, the Taoist sage so poor in his youth he had to study by light of fireflies in a bag. Could be wrong, however.
Last edited by ModTeam on Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AFNetsuke
Posts: 6165
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Central California coast, USA

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby AFNetsuke » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:17 pm

I fall into Neil's camp on the use of terms like Mingei and export. For me Mingei is simply folk art produced for use and often not by a paid artisan and not part of a movement.
Alan

carlomagno
Posts: 1229
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:17 am
Location: Chile

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby carlomagno » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:11 am

A little of Wikipedia?
The philosophical pillar of mingei is "hand-crafted art of ordinary people" (民衆的な工芸 (minshū-teki-na kōgei)). Yanagi Sōetsu discovered beauty in everyday ordinary and utilitarian objects created by nameless and unknown craftsmen. According to Yanagi, utilitarian objects made by the common people are "beyond beauty and ugliness". Below are a few criteria of mingei art and crafts:

made by anonymous crafts people
produced by hand in quantity
inexpensive
used by the masses
functional in daily life
representative of the regions in which they were produced.
Nec spe nec metu

User avatar
Clive
Posts: 1768
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:52 am
Location: UK

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby Clive » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:43 am

Mingei ?
fa20131121a1a-870x659.jpg

User avatar
KPR
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Bayern

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby KPR » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:28 am

Clive wrote:Mingei ?

Yes, if you use these Wikipedia criteria.

made by anonymous crafts people
produced by hand in quantity
inexpensive
used by the masses
functional in daily life
representative of the regions in which they were produced.
Klaus

User avatar
souldeep
Posts: 3559
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:38 pm
Location: London

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby souldeep » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:34 am

A trick question Clive?

Ikkyu, a 14/15thC monk, is attributed with introducing Korean folk pottery into the tea ceremony (Korai chawan). It would seem your example is based around that influence.There are others, later, that are also attributed to this influence (Rikyu for example). But attributions aside, such items of simply craft were and are elevated to fine art through a Japanese aesthetic appreciation.

The example you share looks like a much earlier example of Hagi ware (maybe it is the influence!). Where is it from?

On trying to submit this post, I saw Klaus beat me to a post, in the post editor window. In reply; I'd disagree on the wiki definition inexpensive. Maybe cheap when it started out it's life, but not now. I understand that some of the most expensive and precious pieces of art in Japan are old Korean folk pottery tea bowls.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

User avatar
KPR
Posts: 387
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Bayern

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby KPR » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:03 am

Martyn, I think the statement of inexpensive is that manufacturing is not expensive.
Klaus

neilholton
Posts: 714
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 7:58 pm
Location: Saffron Walden
Contact:

Re: Simple pipe cases for daily use, Mingei style

Postby neilholton » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:33 am

I thought I would share this one. The Musozutsu was a supreme design for the kiseruzutsu. Made by two distinct processes, the excavator and the decorator. I think this example falls into a "daily use" zutsu but as far removed from Mingei as can be.

Interestingly, yesterday Martyn on one of our regular phone call conversations described Mingei brilliantly with an analogy to a practice seen throughout villages in the English countryside. A hobby gardner grows various vegetables for his own consumption, he offers (as a gift or trade) to his neighbours some of the harvest and the remainder he offers on a table with a for sale sign at the front of his house. I've never heard a better description of Mingei how I see it in my mind.
Attachments
JAL276825e.jpg
JAL276825f.jpg


Return to “Sagemono Types”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest