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pipe case addition

A place to discuss and share other forms of sagemono such as Inro, Pipe Cases etc
lohrberg
Posts: 243
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby lohrberg » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:32 pm

Dear Clive, hello to England!

I am flabbergasted, so to say!

Not only all difficult questions explained in words and demonstrated in pictures and movies about japanese artmanship.

Here in the Forum and also off Forum, I knew already, that you have been praised for your skills, knowledge and ability to give insight looks into art.

The body of your followers is countless. I am happy to join them from today on. You are an eyeopener and a Great Master. Thank you very, very much obliged,

Reinhard

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souldeep
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby souldeep » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:18 am

Clive.. As we say here in old blighty, bloody marvellous insight!

Thank you for sharing this knowledge. It really helps open ones eyes to appreciate this complicated expression of art.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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chonchon
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby chonchon » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:03 am

Looking at the end-product is enjoyable, but so is watching the creation process... :idea: in the hands of a master, (or even in the hands of a confident young lady).
Piers

Size is something.

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AFNetsuke
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby AFNetsuke » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:13 pm

Thank you, Clive. I found the simple cutting, splitting, shaving, forming and heating tools to be most interesting. These items may not have changed over centuries of time. You've provided great insight for us.
Alan

lohrberg
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby lohrberg » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:45 pm

KOSHIN

The previously posted Moon/Bat pipecase was by Koshin. I would like to discuss this artist. And hope to get some inputs from others. My knowledge so far is, that Koshin comes from the Zeshin / Ikeda Taishin vicinity, working in Meiji till Taisho.

His works are not so rare and come up in auctions once in a while. Alain Ducros' book Netsuke and Sagemono illustrates and describes 43 pipecase, of which FIVE are by Koshin. That is a high percentage. Of course it gives no hint for Koshin's rating as an artist. Also in front of me on the table I see 4 Koshins. That does not mean anything.
The BAUR collection, Geneva owns five of a top quality.

When I look up Koshin in the Wrangham signature book, Koshin is mentioned five times.

So, who is Koshin? Please do not hesitate, if you can help out.

I want to show a pipecase by this master, where besides the lacquer work the body of the pipecase is highly interesting and to my knowledge (may be) rare.

It is woven in the form of a plum blossom and the material is Fanon de Balaine (in French), Walbarten (In German), Kujira No Hige (in Japanese). I checked for English in my dictionary - not listed. I checked google: May be BALEEN or whale bone (?)

That forms the body. The design:

Decorated in shades of gold, silver, black and red hiramakie and takamakie with swallows in flight above crashing waves,

Reinhard
Attachments
010.jpg
010a.jpg
010c.jpg
010d.jpg

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:08 pm

A wonderful and truly fascinating pipecase Reinhard. Not a technique I've seen or considered before so have been playing with possible ways it might have been executed. I love trying to solve these sorts of puzzles.. we can learn so much from them and also lead us to invent new ways of doing things. :)

The background pattern doesn't look, from the images at least, to be weaving.. more like individual pieces fixed into a solid ground.. maybe like the putty I mention earlier.

So then I wonder how hundreds of such precisely matching little "flower" pieces could be quickly manufactured and out of what material. The baleen connection you mentioned earlier is interesting in this respect because I know the individual fibers of some types of baleen are like thick lozenge shaped hairs which can be finely cut and polished, crosscut in a group... material like this..
Fin-whale-baleen.jpg


Soooo what if.. we took 6 stands.. here I've illustrated in plasticine to help demonstrate.. but imagine I first coated each "hair" in glue to stick them all together..
IMG_2015.JPG

IMG_2017.JPG

IMG_2018.JPG


Then I twisted it severely.. can do that step very much with plasticine but you get the idea right.. the twist will help flatten each fiber.
IMG_2019.JPG

Then I sliced small sections off the end.. and walla :D
IMG_2021.JPG

Obviously I'm not saying this is how it must have been done.. I'm really just having fun thinking about how it might have been done. 8-)
Its so very interesting.. thanks for posting such a stimulating piece.
Last edited by Clive on Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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AFNetsuke
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby AFNetsuke » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:24 pm

Ingenious Clive! Is the diameter of baleen fibers consistent with the size used in Reinhardt's pipecase? They seem to be very fine diameter which might have required the use of the tapering ends but could waste a lot of material.
Could we see a better close-up of the lower case rim? Is it a twisted rope of the same material?
Alan

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:49 pm

Hi Alan.. if not the end hairs.. the more solid Baleen which is fibrous and so pretty much like bamboo in that it can be finely cut, shaped and tapered.. a bit like the bamboo fly rod construction you mentioned earlier. I can't imagine shaping the individual strands would be that difficult.. but I think the important principle here is the slicing into thin cross cuts to produce hundreds of the patterned pieces. Interestingly enough there are a number of other traditional Japanese crafts.. in metalworking and woodworking that use just that same principle. I'll see if I can find another youtube video.. :geek:

lohrberg
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby lohrberg » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:07 pm

Woven or not woven. that is the question

Hello Master Clive,

after your lecture with the baleen material pipecase I will be more caucious in the future, when I read in a caption "woven". Another one of your eyeopeners. A triple Thank You!

There are two more pipecases by Koshin. The second last I will show here as an example of "real" woven, unless you correct me, Clive.

It should be a densly woven Rattan, a kingfisher seated on a leafless branch above crabs, rocks and reeds,

Reinhard
Attachments
007.jpg
007a.jpg
007b.jpg
007c.jpg

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:05 pm

:D Definitely a woven one Reinhard ;) and as a big fan of kingfishers, one I really like although I'm really liking all your pipecases.


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