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pipe case addition

A place to discuss and share other forms of sagemono such as Inro, Pipe Cases etc
dougsanders
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:05 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA

Re: pipe case addition

Postby dougsanders » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Clive- Who's to say it can't be a hexagonal basket weave that's been lacquered and polished down? Each of the little pinwheels shows a twist to the 6 composite strands, that wouldn't be there if the design was built up with six-petal flowers. I really do think this is woven as a really long, narrow basket.
hex weave.JPG
Last edited by dougsanders on Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:08 am

dougsanders wrote:Clive- Who's to say it can't be a hexagonal basket weave that's been lacquered and polished down?


Doug, I don't imagine many people who actually spent some time considering the piece or even pieces like this would say it "can't be a hexagonal basket weave" and would invite you to reread my previous comments regarding the piece. You might pay particular attention to the last sentence... "Obviously I'm not saying this is how it must have been done.. I'm really just having fun thinking about how it might have been done."

FWIW.. I'm entirely open to the suggestion that this was in fact made using some sort of complicated weaving technique or even some sort of embroidery approach. In this particular case however I just didn't think it was and so explored some other possibility. Dare I say if I cared I could probably come up with a dozen other alternatives as well. If there is one thing I have however learnt over the years studying Japanese crafts, particularly the crafts associated with the Urushi arts, is that things often aren't what they appear most likely to be. "Wood" sometimes isn't wood.. "bamboo" sometimes isn't bamboo and yes.. weaving sometimes isn't weaving. Often the craftsmen go to great lengths and effort to create playful deceptions and visual puns.. that might or might not be the case here, who knows without be able to examine it properly. :geek:

As the old saying about the Japanese art and crafts goes.. there's a right way and there's a wrong way and then there's a Japanese way. In considering these sorts of this puzzles it's of the absolutely importance to keep an open mind.

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:07 pm

Further to the above I've done some additional research this morning and came across the following pictures.. although it didn't have much in the way of an accompanying explanation it seems to show precisely the type of weave pattern that is used on Reinhard's pipecase. Fascinating.. I see if I can find out more. :)

210964c2920f1c616a2565a8a3825369.jpg

hzfa182-a-1_detail.jpg

dougsanders
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:05 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA

Re: pipe case addition

Postby dougsanders » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:08 pm

I know you didn't say the tile method was how it had to be done, and that it was just a suggestion of how one might arrive at the piece presented. No accusations there. Others though appear to have taken your word as fact. You came up with an ingenious method, but I have my doubts it was used in this example, that's all.

You know I enjoy these puzzles too- and love to read up on materials and techniques of many cultures' crafts- not just Japanese. And you're exactly right- they can lead us to new ways of doing things.

Along these lines- Milton- would it be possible for you to get a photo aimed directly at the bottom of the pipe case you showed with the insects depicted on thin strips of sesame bamboo? I'd like to see how all the strips meet and overlap at the base. Thanks.

dougsanders
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:05 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA

Re: pipe case addition

Postby dougsanders » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:09 pm

Clive wrote:Further to the above I've done some additional research this morning and came across the following pictures.. although it didn't have much in the way of an accompanying explanation it seems to show precisely the type of weave pattern that is used on Reinhard's pipecase. Fascinating.. I see if I can find out more. :)

Beautiful! That's a great discovery
Last edited by ModTeam on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: quotation function adjusted

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:16 pm

Not sure yet Doug but it seems that the pattern has been made using a crochet technique.. :o

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:44 pm

I think I've found it.. :geek:
Clipboard01.jpg


Taken from precisely 0:27 in the following video..
phpBB [media]

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Clive
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby Clive » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:01 pm

lohrberg wrote:Woven or not woven. that is the question


A question indeed Rienhard but also a fascinating and educational opportunity... I've certainly learnt a thing or two. It seems from all the above that your fantastic pipecase may well be "woven" afterall. Many thanks for sharing it.

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mss
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Re: pipe case addition

Postby mss » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:15 pm

dougsanders wrote:Along these lines- Milton- would it be possible for you to get a photo aimed directly at the bottom of the pipe case you showed with the insects depicted on thin strips of sesame bamboo? I'd like to see how all the strips meet and overlap at the base. Thanks.



Sorry for the thread, quick photo, did not notice it.
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L1020516.jpg

dougsanders
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:05 pm
Location: Bloomington, IN, USA

Re: pipe case addition

Postby dougsanders » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Thank you. It's informative to see how the structure is wrapped


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