netsuke and sagemono lounge : Disclaimer - Please click anywhere on this bar to expand/contract the content.

Advice on Repair

Tips and advice on looking after your netsuke and sagemono
User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6878
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby chonchon » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:01 am

PS Under persecution, many of the early Christians used the similarity to hide their crosses. You'll see 1,000 on a battle flag for example, written like UPenn's Okimono so that it looks like ten (or the Christian cross), but under interrogation it could be argued that it was actually 1,000. 'Built-in deniability', I call it. I have a gun from Kumamoto Castle in Kyushu, (where the Hosokawa Daimyo were Christian but hid it), covered with the Kanji for ten 十 and thousand 千 carved in the barrel. On the face of it just castle armoury numbers, but in all probability to protect the soul of the owner in battle. Not that this is the case here, but just to explain how similar they can be.
Piers

Size is something.

User avatar
UPenn
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:02 pm

chonchon wrote:PS Under persecution, many of the early Christians used the similarity to hide their crosses. You'll see 1,000 on a battle flag for example, written like UPenn's Okimono so that it looks like ten (or the Christian cross), but under interrogation it could be argued that it was actually 1,000. 'Built-in deniability', I call it. I have a gun from Kumamoto Castle in Kyushu, (where the Hosokawa Daimyo were Christian but hid it), covered with the Kanji for ten 十 and thousand 千 carved in the barrel. On the face of it just castle armoury numbers, but in all probability to protect the soul of the owner in battle. Not that this is the case here, but just to explain how similar they can be.

Wow that's deep. Now I'm really curious about this signature, I'm hoping somebody here will find find this challenge worth resolving - with payoff in personal satisfaction :)
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

User avatar
jbjtennyo
Posts: 3710
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: USA

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby jbjtennyo » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:45 pm

chonchon wrote:Judy, on the face of it yes, it looks like Ju 十, but the little top tick is often added seriously minimally, making it 1,000 instead, especially seen in artistic representations.
Not a perfect example, but see the wiggle on the top of the bottom left Kanji for 1,000 here:
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0575.jpg

and top left on this page:
https://1jp.tokyo/kanji/su-so/89.html

UPenn, Laz is the go-to book for Netsuke, well, there are two or three others, but often you get crossover in the Netsuke, Ojime and Okimono fields, so sometimes you can strike it lucky. I checked several books and had a flick around the Japanese internet last night but only came up with a couple of more modern artists name Senri with those characters. Although your work is not from the Edo Period, it is probably from a later time when artists were appealing to the western market. Personally I do not have any dedicated works on Okimono. Perhaps one of our members can point you in that direction. Although there are quite a few Netsuke shops in London, there are one or two which specialize more in Okimono, which tends to be a slightly different field.


Thank you Piers! I see that now that you have pointed it out. Good eyes I guess I don't have!
UPenn, I wanted to check in the Lazarnick book because, even though it is about netsuke signatures, there were some netsuke-shi who also carved Okimono. It was worth a look, but no, I did not find that name in the Laz Book. But there is always hope. Perhaps someone will have seen it in a catalogue somewhere.
Judy

User avatar
UPenn
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:52 pm

jbjtennyo wrote:Thank you Piers! I see that now that you have pointed it out. Good eyes I guess I don't have!
UPenn, I wanted to check in the Lazarnick book because, even though it is about netsuke signatures, there were some netsuke-shi who also carved Okimono. It was worth a look, but no, I did not find that name in the Laz Book. But there is always hope. Perhaps someone will have seen it in a catalogue somewhere.

Thanks for trying Judy!
By the way my name is Greg, the UPenn username is an artifact of autofill when I was signing up, that's actually where I work. But now that I've lived with it for a while I kind of like the nickname, feel free to continue using it. :)
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6878
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby chonchon » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:37 am

Greg, great to have you here. Battle scars can be seen in different lights, and each such Netsuke will present a problem for the owner and any potential restorer. The final decision will be different, and leaving it alone must be a popular option. I would look for a little Japanese bow (or make one) and rest it standing against his shoulder.
In the case of your dealer, you have to consider that he or she really did not see or evaluate the damage fully. The description ‘some damage to hand’ would suggest firstly genuine honesty to me.
Often I have pointed out something to a dealer, who looks shocked and grabs it out of my hand. Just the other day I saw a huge crack in a wooden Netsuke, but not in the side you naturally look at. The dealer laughed and dismissed my comment with a wave of his hand, but fell silent and disappointed when he looked for himself.
Piers

Size is something.

User avatar
UPenn
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:20 pm

chonchon wrote:Greg, great to have you here. Battle scars can be seen in different lights, and each such Netsuke will present a problem for the owner and any potential restorer. The final decision will be different, and leaving it alone must be a popular option. I would look for a little Japanese bow (or make one) and rest it standing against his shoulder.
In the case of your dealer, you have to consider that he or she really did not see or evaluate the damage fully. The description ‘some damage to hand’ would suggest firstly genuine honesty to me.
Often I have pointed out something to a dealer, who looks shocked and grabs it out of my hand. Just the other day I saw a huge crack in a wooden Netsuke, but not in the side you naturally look at. The dealer laughed and dismissed my comment with a wave of his hand, but fell silent and disappointed when he looked for himself.

Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me on this matter, all well received. I know most people would just leave it like it is. I might be a tad OCD, it gnaws at me to be incomplete as intended by the original artist. So with the help of another forum member I've identified somebody who does these kinds of repairs routinely and can carve a replacement bow out of mammoth. Nothing is settled yet but I'm going to send it to him so he can evaluate in in person before proceeding to any actual repairs. But this thread has been tremendously useful for me I thank again everybody who took the time to contribute. I've started two threads now and both paid off in spades. I guess I'll have to start a third one at some point :)
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

User avatar
UPenn
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:50 am

I noticed even more damage on this today, besides the missing bow in his left hand apparently he's holding an arrow in his right hand, the end of which is broken off, the part with the feathers (see attached picture).
I'm in dialog with somebody about carving replacement parts. We're wondering if the bow was strung and how it would even be possible to carve something like that. But this artist appears to have been quite ambitious I wouldn't be surpised if he pulled that off somehow.
Attachments
hunter_highres8.jpg
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

User avatar
AFNetsuke
Posts: 6246
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Central California coast, USA

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby AFNetsuke » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:04 am

On netsuke the bow would not likely be strung. But okimono tend to be more elaborate and are presumed to be safe from damage sitting on a shelf. A string is certainly possible. Note the slim ramrod being used to load my hunter's rifle.
20180303_165658.jpg
Alan

User avatar
UPenn
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:35 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:50 am

That's gorgeous, I guess it's possible to string the bow like that, it would be a lot longer. I tried to find something like that in ivory with google but I came up empty. The person I'm talking to originally offered to carve the bow unstrung and smooth. But the original seems to have had a tight pattern of parallel lines all along its length. I would want it to match that as close as possible. That together with the string may have turned this into too daunting of a project for him but we're still talking he hasn't said no yet.
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6878
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Advice on Repair

Postby chonchon » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:54 am

Looking at Meiji okimono I notice that other materials were often used, so if your bow originally had a wire string it would not surprise me in the least. In fact it would be a much better solution in my opinion than attempting to carve string from some material. Why even try?

Alan, I like your okimono a lot. In fact, looking at the ruff on his sleeve and the wave patterns on his leggings, I am tempted to suggest it is portraying Tokitaka, Lord of Tanegashima, trying out the very first gun (Portuguese) in his garden there. A famous incident, after the barbarian ship was wrecked on his island in 1543.
Piers

Size is something.


Return to “Handling & Care”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest