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Advice on Repair

Tips and advice on looking after your netsuke and sagemono
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UPenn
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:53 pm

dougsanders wrote:I work as a paper conservator, with library, archival and art materials at a University, but then on evenings and weekends I carve netsuke :? All conservators seem to have a great eye though for noticing details :P
I wouldn't attempt a replacement myself; chiefly because so much of the re-carved piece would be conjecture.

It's an interesting topic- repair- and it's gone through quite a lot of approaches over the years, at least in the museum and conservation professions. Different countries take different approaches and certainly different eras have found different solutions and ethics. Next time you're at a museum, have a look around- particularly in areas of ceramic and sculpture collections and you'll likely see different approaches going on. Play 'spot the repair'!

I would personally ask for a return, but I'm not much of a collector- there are others on the forum more able to comment on the topic of buying/selling and the risks involved. Certain collecting areas are more accepting of damage than others, and certain collectors have a higher tolerance. Where you fit in all of that, only you can determine, but of course experience plays a part in shaping one's attitude :)

One other thing- I suspect the subject of your okimono isn't a hunter, but maybe some sort of legend involving a samurai killing a boar. The only one I've been able to find was someone who killed a giant one, with his bare hands- Washinowo Saburô- which I don't think is the case here.

There was a 14 day return period, so in all fairness I could have returned it. I'd like to tell you what I paid for it so you can better judge of the magnitude of the mistake - but my understanding is I'm not allowed to say here. But suffice it to say I did not bid to win and was amazed and pleasantly surprised when I did win it.

Thanks again for your very helpful advice, I'm not going to do anything until I've thoroughly researched it.

But I'm not too concerned with a replacement part that wasn't exactly like the original, some speculation would be involved.
But I bet you could get close.

:)
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby AFNetsuke » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:49 pm

Greg, I think Doug's advice to leave it alone is sound. If you think about the missing bow as a long skinny piece to replace (and maybe a string?) I think it would be challenging and somewhat expensive to have done. Likely more costly than you paid. If it is at your home in Italy ivory could be used but if in the U.S. you might have a material issue.

Doug, it would be instructive for many of us here if you pointed out other areas of concern on this piece.
Alan

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UPenn
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:56 pm

AFNetsuke wrote:Greg, I think Doug's advice to leave it alone is sound. If you think about the missing bow as a long skinny piece to replace (and maybe a string?) I think it would be challenging and somewhat expensive to have done. Likely more costly than you paid. If it is at your home in Italy ivory could be used but if in the U.S. you might have a material issue.

Doug, it would be instructive for many of us here if you pointed out other areas of concern on this piece.


Thanks for very much your advice Doug, I'm certainly leaning hard against removing any material from it.

And I take your point on materials.

If I have a bow made for it, I would want it to be a clear repair, kind of like in museum pieces where they make the repaired part evident. But they do add back missing parts so people can get a clue about how it looked when it was still fully intact.

So that being said, I'm thinking the pefect way to do this would be in plastic with a 3-D printer. That would give me a piece I could lightly attach which could add aesthetically to the piece without either hurting or enhacing its value.

Now I just have to find somebody with a 3D printer...
Last edited by UPenn on Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

dougsanders
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby dougsanders » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:57 am

Sorry Alan- I can't see much else to comment on, condition-wise.
The shininess of the glue residue is what tipped me off.

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chonchon
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby chonchon » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:00 am

The signature(?) says 千里 Senri, (also a place name, and means literally 1,000 Ri distance, = nearly 4,000 km). 千里眼 Senrigan means clarivoyance, i.e. ability to see 'beyond'. I have not researched any carvers by this name.
Piers

Size is something.

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Clive
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby Clive » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:11 pm

This seems like a pretty standard repair for a professional netuke/okimono restorer. Unfortunately it's not a job I could take on at the moment but I could probably recommend a qualified US restorer. PM me Greg if you're interested.

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jbjtennyo
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby jbjtennyo » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:10 pm

hmmmm, Piers, That first kanji looks like the horizontal line crosses in the middle of the vertical. I thought it read Juri (or Jusato) Neither of which are in the Laz book. I know some netsuke-shi also caved Okimono, but in this instance, I do not find it in LAZ.
Judy

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UPenn
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:50 pm

chonchon wrote:The signature(?) says 千里 Senri, (also a place name, and means literally 1,000 Ri distance, = nearly 4,000 km). 千里眼 Senrigan means clarivoyance, i.e. ability to see 'beyond'. I have not researched any carvers by this name.

Wow your Japanese is good! Thanks for the translation, is that something that even could be a real name? I mean nobody in the English world would be named "Mr Clairvoyant at 4000 Kilometers". Is that how names work in Japan?

I'm now curious to find any info on this particular carver, but I wouldn't even know how to start, I don't have those characters on my keyboard. Where does one research such a thing?

Thanks again :)
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

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UPenn
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby UPenn » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:51 pm

jbjtennyo wrote:hmmmm, Piers, That first kanji looks like the horizontal line crosses in the middle of the vertical. I thought it read Juri (or Jusato) Neither of which are in the Laz book. I know some netsuke-shi also caved Okimono, but in this instance, I do not find it in LAZ.

Hi Judy pardon my ignorance but is the Laz book strictly netsuke? Is there an equivalent reference for Okimonos? Thanks,
My name is Greg, life is good, code green.

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chonchon
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Re: Advice on Repair

Postby chonchon » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:45 am

Judy, on the face of it yes, it looks like Ju 十, but the little top tick is often added seriously minimally, making it 1,000 instead, especially seen in artistic representations.
Not a perfect example, but see the wiggle on the top of the bottom left Kanji for 1,000 here:
http://www013.upp.so-net.ne.jp/santai/jpg/0575.jpg

and top left on this page:
https://1jp.tokyo/kanji/su-so/89.html

UPenn, Laz is the go-to book for Netsuke, well, there are two or three others, but often you get crossover in the Netsuke, Ojime and Okimono fields, so sometimes you can strike it lucky. I checked several books and had a flick around the Japanese internet last night but only came up with a couple of more modern artists name Senri with those characters. Although your work is not from the Edo Period, it is probably from a later time when artists were appealing to the western market. Personally I do not have any dedicated works on Okimono. Perhaps one of our members can point you in that direction. Although there are quite a few Netsuke shops in London, there are one or two which specialize more in Okimono, which tends to be a slightly different field.
Last edited by chonchon on Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Piers

Size is something.


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