netsuke and sagemono lounge : Disclaimer - Please click anywhere on this bar to expand/contract the content.

18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Showcasing netsuke from our membership
netsuke(enthusiast)
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 am

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby netsuke(enthusiast) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:14 pm

Also, his robes look more chinese than dutch. As it is missing the collar/buttons.

lohrberg
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:31 am
Location: Hannover - Germany

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby lohrberg » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:00 pm

Gaijin or Japanese (Asian) - mixed or pure?

I do not have answers to these questions. I just want to point out something. When we see a person in a netsuke with a musical wind instrument, the majority of us tends to say: Ah, a Dutchman!

Why do we say so? Most of us think, a trumpet, etc. belongs to western music only.But that is not the fact. The classical wind instrument of China (Tibet), Korea, Japan knows a trumpet, etc.

So, Alex's two boys might have no connection at all to the Dutch.

When we look at the faces, we cannot find anything, which indicates, that a foreigner had his "hands" in. We see the very same physionomy in both boys, a round moon like face.
Does that mean European? I don't think so. Round faces are often seen with Chinese.

The shape of their eyes is East Asian (China, Korea, Japan). I do not think the two boys are a Japanese/Dutch cooperation. Both are pure Asians.

Where are they from? We should guess about the boy's hat next, then their robes.

Besides, a phantastic netsuke!

Reinhard

netsuke(enthusiast)
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 am

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby netsuke(enthusiast) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:13 pm

Lohrberg, I agree

User avatar
Operafan
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby Operafan » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Thank you, Reinhard, for your comments.

I still believe that the two boys have a Dutch connection. I agree with your opinion about the facial features - there is no clear indication of them being a result of Dutch / Japanese 'cooperation'. However, the younger boy does wear a Dutch hat, which might have come from his Dutch father. I wish both of us could visit the studio of Tsuji and have a word with him about this piece ;) .

As for Peter's Dutchman, I keep trying to find anything similar, or anything to help with it's attribution, unfortunately no success up to now. Even in the book 'Netsuke - Dutchmen in miniature', there is no netsuke which has any similarity with it.

Will keep searching...
Alex

netsuke(enthusiast)
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 am

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby netsuke(enthusiast) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:52 am

Thank you Alex, I will look as well.

User avatar
Operafan
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby Operafan » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:58 pm

I still have not come to any clever conclusion about the attribution of your netsuke, Peter. The coat, and perhaps the hat look Dutch. However, having enlarged the face, I am quite convinced now that the facial features are not Dutch:

FullSizeRender.jpg


The eyes look East-Asian, the beard is definitely not Dutch style, the face is not round as in almost all 'Dutch' netsuke.

In all my books, I could hardly ever find a bearded Dutch. Here is a photo which I took in the museum in Cologne. The face is very round, and the beard curly:

IMG_0435.JPG
Last edited by Operafan on Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Alex

netsuke(enthusiast)
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 am

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby netsuke(enthusiast) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:15 pm

Thank you for the information! So are you implying this "trader" is wearing dutch clothes, but is of eastern origin?

User avatar
Operafan
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby Operafan » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:45 pm

Yes, that is what I assume. It could be either a Japanese 'assistant', or even somebody originating from one of the Dutch colonies: Dutch East Indies (Indonesia) or Formosa (present day Taiwan). Less probably - Dutch Ceylon.
Alex

netsuke(enthusiast)
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 am

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby netsuke(enthusiast) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Are there any netsuke of this topic?

User avatar
AFNetsuke
Posts: 6168
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Central California coast, USA

Re: 18th Century Dutchman netsuke

Postby AFNetsuke » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:47 am

There are many distorted features in netsuke because the carver never actually saw the real subject. Some were copied from paintings, prints, other carvings, etc. Just look at some of the fantastic dragons and tigers we see. So logically it is difficult to know whether this artist was carving a Dutchman, Portugese, Asian in foreign garb or a hybrid based on reports he had heard. :roll:
Alan


Return to “Collector's Gallery”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests