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Manju - karako with drum

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Operafan
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Manju - karako with drum

Postby Operafan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:34 pm

My recent addition to my karako related collection is a manju - a karako with his drum. At the back - what looks to be a trumpet, and the signature.
Tried to identify the signature, with the help of LAZ and other books. The closest I could come is Dosho with kakihan, but I have serious doubts about my identification. :?

Help would be very much appreciated, thank you.

Here are the photos of the manju:

Manju - front.jpg


Manju - back.jpg
Alex

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Vlad
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Vlad » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:29 pm

Wonderful deep carving, Alex, making it almost a katabori! I am having an obvious difficulty with the first kanji, and the traditional stroke count doesn't really help here either, but I am sure someone will be able to help...
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby DSW90049 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:02 pm

Alex, I REALLY like the carving on this one!
- the musical theme is carried over to the solitary bachi (plectrum) on the reverse.
- wonder if there is a hidden message, or some relationship between the drum and the bachi, the latter alone, without shamisen or other stringed instrument to play?
- note, the stick which the karaoke carries and which melts into the clothing of his arm, is also called bachi.
- great Shreger lines on signature side!

I generally am not attracted to pieces featuring Karako, but the feel and styling of this one - all those curves emerging -
really appeals to me enough to force me to reconsider my feelings.

Thanks for sharing this one!
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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Vlad
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Vlad » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:22 pm

I would also consider it being rather a kid's trumpet and not a plectrum, as a possibility.
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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Operafan
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Operafan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:13 pm

Thank you for your nice comments, Vlad and David.

I am quite sure that the instrument at the signature side is a kid's trumpet. A shamisen bachi has to have some more width in the handle, and has to be shorter, to be able to play a string instrument, like a shamisen.

Here are a few photos of bachi for string instruments:

Bachi.JPG


By the way, it is interesting to note that the signature side is darker, has deeper patina than the karako side. Could be a sign that the manju has actually been used, and the signature side touched the silk kimono.
Alex

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lmallier
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby lmallier » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:50 pm

Here is the signature: KISHOSAI

I own a very similar one :)

DSC00919.JPG

DSC00924.JPG

Louis
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Operafan
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Operafan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:19 pm

Great, Louis, thank you !

Found some more info about Kishosai in MCI (page 343) and Lazarnick (page 624):

MCI 343.jpg


LAZ 624.jpg


By the way, I was not THAT far when I thought that the signature was of Dosho (Doshosai); Kishosai was a pupil of Doshosai in Osaka ;) .
Last edited by Operafan on Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alex

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Vlad
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Vlad » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:43 pm

Kishosai it is indeed!
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby chonchon » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:51 am

Easy way to remember. The first character is Ki, 鬼 which is Oni, ie devil/ogre.

Loving both of those Manju, Alex and Louis. :)
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Operafan
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Re: Manju - karako with drum

Postby Operafan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:54 pm

Some interesting developments about this couple of manjus, both of them are in my collection by now.

Firstly, just as a reminder, here are the photos (the back of the two manjus, with the signature and the trumpet, are almost identical):

Manju - front.jpg

Manju - back.jpg

Front.jpg


Both manjus are signed Kishosai, who apparently worked in Osaka, 19th century. I have checked in all relevant books (MCI, LAZ, Davey, Reikichi). None of them gives a more accurate indication about the working period of Kishosai. Reikishi comments: 'late'. However, since Meinertzhagen mentioned (page 343) that he might have been a pupil of Dosho in Osaka, and Dosho was active 1830 - 1870 (MCI, page 49), I assume that Kishosai was active in the second half of the 19th century.

Now the more interesting part - here is a photo of two manju which I have found in 'The Go Collection of Netsuke':

Go 1.jpg

Go 2.jpg


The two manju are almost identical to the Kishosai ones, but attributed to Hojitsu, who worked in Edo (Tokyo) closer to the first half of the 19th century. Ín the book, unfortunately there is no photo of the back of the manjus, but I assume that the Hojitsu attribution is correct. There is no doubt whatsoever that Kishosai was 'inspired' by the Hojitsu manjus. The distance between Osaka and Edo is approximately 500 km...

I would be very happy if somebody could enlighten me about the way the interaction between the Edo and the Osaka schools worked, assuming that the two carvers worked indeed in Osaka and Edo respectively.
Alex


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