netsuke and sagemono lounge : Disclaimer - Please click anywhere on this bar to expand/contract the content.

Signature or not

Discussions of carvers, workshops and attributions. A forum to also find help on, or discuss, signatures.
User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6919
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Signature or not

Postby chonchon » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:11 am

Yuck indeed! And has the other one got a knife in is hand to lance it, or is it perhaps one of those wooden shiatsu sticks?
Piers

Size is something.

Bryko
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Signature or not

Postby Bryko » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:15 am

chonchon wrote:Neil's reply contains the words 'Okimono-esque Netsuke'. That sounds like a perfect description. Closer to Okimono in shape, but Netsuke in size...?

You say there are no Himotoshi holes, but I can see at least two that could possibly work within Neil's description.

The name Roku-ko means six turtle-shells Roku(6) +Ko (shell backs), and the two parts are run together with a little hiccup between, ie sounding like Rock-koh.

Finally, I wonder if he has so thoroughly quelled the two demons that one is squatting, waiting, and the other is pushing and squeezing, trying to burst a boil on Shoki's back?


Could the Oni have MADE the boil appear on Shoki's back ... by a MAGIC incantation, as a vexation ?
The expression on the face of the one with his hands on Shoki's back certainly looks MALICIOUS, and Shoki himself certainly looks surprised ...or even ANGRY.

Bryko
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Signature or not

Postby Bryko » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:30 am

chonchon wrote:Yuck indeed! And has the other one got a knife in is hand to lance it, or is it perhaps one of those wooden shiatsu sticks?



Upon closer examination it is impossible to tell exactly what the object is, but it appears to be BLUNT rather than sharp, and is clutched in the hand of the secondary Oni. Both have demonic expressions on their faces and seem intent on committing some act which will cause pain.
Attachments
oni 1.JPG

Bryko
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Signature or not

Postby Bryko » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:40 am

neilholton wrote:This is a brilliant artist. Roko was perhaps the finest figural artist of his day, making okimono-esque Netsuke. He was marvellous at Nio.

Is this a Shoki and Oni group?


Is the (English) spelling of the artist's name Roko or Rokko ? Or does it even matter ?
Another contributor has even suggested Roku-ko, perhaps as a way to pronounce the name.
I found the following photo of a signature on an Okimono, attributed to "Rokko." (See photo).
Attachments
rokko signature large.JPG

User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6919
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Signature or not

Postby chonchon » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:00 am

The common traditional way to spell it in Romanized English is Rokko, but be careful not to pronounce that ‘rocko’. It should sound like Roc-Ko, like an internet company called Rock.co or something, however you want to spell that! :D
Piers

Size is something.

User avatar
neilholton
Posts: 743
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 7:58 pm
Location: Saffron Walden
Contact:

Re: Signature or not

Postby neilholton » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:55 am

Funnily Piers I have been pronouncing the name exactly the way you say not too. Though this is not a surprise. I think pronouncing Japanese names is very difficult. One Swiss customer always teases me how I say the name Tsuji, and that my Mitsuhiro sounds Russian :?

Martyn also loves to correct me on my Asakusa pronounciation.

I think the little Oni are applying Moxa pellets to poor old Shoki. This is a kind play on two themes, you see the Oni are belted with beans each year at the Setsubun festival and now Shoki is having a burning object applied to his back. Its a kind of....how do you like it...going on here.

User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6919
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Signature or not

Postby chonchon » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:25 am

Moxa and setsubun both occurred to me too, and I am happy to go with your theory. If moxa, then the rounded shiatsu stick starts to make more sense too.
Piers

Size is something.

Bryko
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Signature or not

Postby Bryko » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:17 pm

Shoki really seems to have these two Oni TAMED, if they are performing MOXIBUSTION on him, seeing that it is a CURATIVE process. Actually, the opposite of inflicting pain. The burning pellet and smoking wand are both elements used in this ancient therapy, to increase the Yang energy. Here's a photo of a drawing, or woodcut, showing the process being done in almost the same way as depicted on Rokko's carving.
Thanks again to everyone for all the GREAT information.
Attachments
moxibustion 1.JPG

User avatar
chonchon
Posts: 6919
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Signature or not

Postby chonchon » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:37 pm

The humour of the piece however is that it can be extremely painful: it was even used as a punishment to ‘cure’ naughty kids. They are in a sense in a position of power, getting their own back on him, and enjoying his evident pain. Because it is treatment, he cannot really complain.
Last edited by chonchon on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Piers

Size is something.

Bryko
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:30 am

Re: Signature or not

Postby Bryko » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 am

Thanks again to everyone who contributed.
Ever informative and knowledgeable group of people, willing to share their expertise.
Best wishes.
:D


Return to “Artists & Signatures”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest