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Minko or Tomin attribution?

Discussions of carvers, workshops and attributions. A forum to also find help on, or discuss, signatures.
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AFNetsuke
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Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby AFNetsuke » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:05 am

While on vacation in the Sierra Nevada Mountains this week we took an hour side trip one morning to handle a large group of tigers owned by an INS member.
Attached three photos of a parent and male cub are the only ones available.
Question: Minko or is this piece by Tomin inscribing Minko?
All opinions welcome but please support your attribution with observations as to why.
Attachments
Screenshot_20170814-082754.jpg
Screenshot_20170819-185250.jpg
Screenshot_20170819-185149.jpg
Last edited by AFNetsuke on Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alan

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NetsukeManiac
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby NetsukeManiac » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:02 am

Circular spots along the spine tend to be a Tomin trait. Brass eyes with black pupils tend to be a Minko trait. See my Minko signed tiger below which has MOP eyes typical of Tomin and the same circular spots along the spine which appear on Tomin tigers. The paws on both my and your specimen seem to be more inline with Tomin vs Minko.

DSC01118.JPG
DSC01123.JPG
DSC01126.JPG
DSC01127.JPG
DSC01128.JPG


Also, compare to the V&A example and the one owned by Stan which are both signed Tomin. The first with MOP eyes and the second with brass eyes. Please note that the color on Stan's piece is way off and should be similar to the V&A tiger. To my eyes, these appear to be more accomplished work by Tomin possibly when he signed in his own name.

V & A Tomin Tiger.jpg
Tomin Tiger 1.jpg
Tomin Tiger 2.jpg
Tomin Tiger 3.jpg
Tomin Tiger 4.jpg
Last edited by NetsukeManiac on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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NetsukeManiac
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby NetsukeManiac » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:10 am

And just for reference, typical Minko paws:

DSC01205.JPG
Last edited by NetsukeManiac on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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souldeep
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby souldeep » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:35 am

Dave - thanks for posting this.

Good comparative examples, and yours, a lovely tiger.

I noted a similar thread that didn't reach a conclusion. It's listed in the similar topics area at the bottom of this topic (only INS members will see what I refer to as it's part of the historical members area).

I've always found the Tomin vs Minko tiger debate interesting. I hope on this occasion we might tease Neil H off holiday for 10 minutes to share his Tsu school expertise.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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MakkaPakka
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby MakkaPakka » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:28 pm

It might be neither, Its claws and paws look more in the style of tomin but not refined enough. It has that boldness of Minko but not quite bold enough, Also the style of the ears are slanted back I would throw my hat in at Kokei or another member of the TSU school?

Tomin%20Tiger%202.jpg

Tomin%20Tiger%204.jpg
Last edited by MakkaPakka on Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NetsukeManiac
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby NetsukeManiac » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:14 am

Another tiger signed 'Tomin'.

Tomin Tiger Sagemonya.JPG


If you look in Netsuke 7, you will find three Minko signed tigers (including the one Alan posted: K304) which don't seem to fit what we would consider a typical Minko toger. K305 definitely seems to look more like a Tomin tiger to me.
Last edited by NetsukeManiac on Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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neilholton
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby neilholton » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:15 am

You've teased me Martyn ;)

Certainly Minko Ltd. I am not convinced it is either Tomin or Kokei though both these suggestions are worthy proposals.

This great productive studio had lots of members, some we know, some we'll probably never know. I think it is likely by one of these in the latter category.....with Tomin-esque qualities.

Its nice to see in Tsu the male Tigers took their parenting responsibility seriously, nice touch :)

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Oishii
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Re: Minko or Tomin attribution?

Postby Oishii » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks, guys, this has been an interesting read and comparison !

Virginia Atchley describes certain features that may distinguish Kokei from others in this school - Kenkyukai 6/1 :

"His (Kokei) version of the tiger must have been extremely popular with his clientele, judging from the many tigers signed Kokei. (...)
They are small, the tiger stripes are carefully delineated , and the tails are either wrapped around the body or curled over the back.
They are usually seated, with the fierce (but not too fierce) visage peering over a shoulder, sometimes they are holding or liking a cub, sometimes curled into a ball grooming themselves. (...)
With all his animals, and other subjects as well, Kokei uses a natural opening for the himotoshi wherever he can,
and the eyes are, with few exceptions, carved into the wood, not inset. "
eyes Kokei.jpg
Last edited by Oishii on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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