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Samurai and Ox signature help please

Discussions of carvers, workshops and attributions. A forum to also find help on, or discuss, signatures.
kevinpageoriental
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby kevinpageoriental » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:20 pm

Hello,

I've got quite a nice ivory netsuke of a samurai and an ox, I've tried to look up the signature in Neil K Davey's book but no luck, does anyone have any idea who it's by?

Thanks,

Kevin
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chonchon
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby chonchon » Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:41 pm

Hi Kevin,

How's everything in London? I'll be over for the summer next week.

Because he has a straight sword, he may be an older figure, from before samurai. I think you meant to post a shot from behind.
The Mei is hard to see clearly but it's probably Naoyuki 直雪. There is one with these characters recorded on page 601 of the MCI, bottom right.
Piers

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tanukisan
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:30 pm
Location: Solihull , West Midlands

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby tanukisan » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:46 pm

His hairstyle looks wrong for a samurai - unless he is a ronin or bandit perhaps?

John 


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KPR
Posts: 422
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:08 pm
Location: Bayern

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby KPR » Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:18 am

tanukisan wrote:His hairstyle looks wrong for a samurai - unless he is a ronin or bandit perhaps?

Perhaps the bandit KIDOMARU, who was often hidden under a disemboweled ox.
3144-001.jpg
Klaus

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chonchon
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby chonchon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:01 am

That must be it. The story is set in the very late 900s AD, where he is a prisoner in the house of one of the brothers Minamoto no Yorinobu and Minamoto no Yorimitsu, but by then Japanese sword blades were already taking on the new curved silhouette.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%BA%90 ... C%E4%BF%A1
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%BA%90 ... C%E5%85%89

Some pics here: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%AC%BC ... 5%E4%B8%B8
Piers

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chonchon
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Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby chonchon » Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:06 am

(Either way, stunning Netsuke!)

Maybe I should eat my words over Samurai earlier. Apologies. The word Samurai only became mainstream in the early 17th century, but their roots go way back. Bushi is possibly a better word. The two brothers above are described as Busho, or warrior generals.
Piers

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tanukisan
Posts: 590
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Location: Solihull , West Midlands

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby tanukisan » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:00 am

Agree with Klaus about the figure beside the ox.
Extract from 'The Animal in Far Eastern Art: And Especially in the Art of the Japanese Netsuke' by T. Volker -
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kevinpageoriental
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Re: Samurai and Ox signature help please

Postby kevinpageoriental » Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:47 am

Thanks for the help everyone, very much appreciated, especially the advice on subject - excellent story! I've not come across that one before.

Piers - London is not too bad I'm not sure if you heard, but we had a huge flood before Christmas, luckily most of our Japanese (including netsuke) was upstairs so we didn't loose too much of it. It's just a nightmare sorting out the insurance! Do pop in and say Hi if you are in the area.

Thanks,
Kevin


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