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Shunga discussion - different grades

What subject or legend is depicted in your netsuke or sagemono?
lohrberg
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby lohrberg » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:45 am

Back to Hokusai's TAKO TO AMA

The text that follows is not my own work, I am quoting from Danielle Talerico's research.

Her conclusion is: Hokusai's work is very much in line with the hedonistic EDO spirit celebrating female desire and pleasure.
Her analysis reads:

The divers legs are spread apart, making room for the large octopus between her thighs, and her bent left leg caresses the mantle of the octopus while her hands firmly grip two of its large tentacles. The divers pleasure is apparent at a glance. This is not an attemp to push the octopus away, as her arms, bent at the ellbows, are relaxed up to her hands. The large octopus is shown with seven of its tentacles wrapped around the torso and shoulders of the diver. While sucking on her vagina with its funnel, the octopus graphically stimulates her clitoris.
The diver appears to shift her weight onto her right forearm in order to lift her torso slightly. Her neck arches as she reaches to meet the funnel of the smaller octopus, which sucks from her mouth. Its tentacles work her torso. Two touch her chest and one wrapps around her left nipple. Three other tentacles cradle her neck, allowing the octopus to insert its funnel into her mouth with greater ease. Her slightly closed eyes and relaxed facial expression suggest content.


Please, dear reader of this post have a look at the print again and answer by yourself if you can agree to her analyse. Watching the print we have further to notice, that the ama and octopi are framed by text. There is no empty space left, written text everywhere.

It is strange to believe, that collectors and scholars never made the attempt to do a translation into a non Japanese language. Talerico offers a translation in her research. It shows a humorous dialogue (better trialogue) between ama and her two lovers. In the following quote I have shortened the text a little, but beside that, it goes like this:

Octopus:
Wondering when to do the abduction, but today is the day. At last she's captured. Even so, this is a plump, good pussy. Even a greater delicassy than a potato. Sucking to complete satisfaction, ......., Zufu, zufu, chu, chu! Zu! Zu!

Diver:
That hateful octopus fu fu, fu .... rather aa aa ... sucking on the surface of the inner mouth of my womb until I'm breathless, aa, eee, I'm coming. By that projecting mouth the open vagina is teased. Oh, what to do? Fu, fu, fuu, yoo, yoo, yoo .... Octopus! Ou, fu, fuu.

Octopus:
Zuu, zuu, zuu, hicha-hicha, gucha-gucha, jutsu, chu, chu, guu, guu, zuu, zuu.

Diver
Say! How about, how about the feeling of being entwined by eight legs? Oh, its swelling inside, aa, aa.

Diver
Ee, moo, I'm becoming ticklish. One after another until I loose track, fu, fu, fuu, limits and boundaries are gone oo, oo, oo. I've arrived aaa, there, here, uu, mu, mufu, umu, uuu, good! Good!

Small octopus
After my parent is finished, I, too, will use my projecting mouth to rub from her clit to her ass until she loses consciousness, and when she revives, I'll do it again, chu, chu. End of quote

That's it!

Reinhard

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KPR
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby KPR » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:48 am

Very intensive and informative work.
Strange, I have not noticed so far, that the picture has a comprehensive text. :o
Probably Edmond de Goncourt, Jack Hillier and Richard Lane happened exactly just like that, otherwise they would not have been writing so superficial. ;)

"Zuu, zuu, zuu, hicha-hicha, gucha-gucha, jutsu, chu, chu, guu, guu, zuu, zuu"
Klaus

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LUBlub
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby LUBlub » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:38 pm

Back to Hokusai's TAKO TO AMA

Thank you so much Reinhard for your usual cultural contribution, with careful research and valuable documentation ... I (and I think many of us) often very ignorant in many aspects of the culture and Japanese simbology we always find in your posts a serious and credible source that enriches this forum, and not least with the pictures of your beautiful collection ...
This is the true spirit and cultural model to use in our forum, no debates with “argumentum ad hominem” – remember forum rules of conduct - no competitiveness and in a constructive spirit (“cast the first stone who considers himself wise and master of knowledge” ..) There are various degrees of knowledge that distinguish people, but who owns it in the highest degree must expresses and teach it with education and respect, if not his knowledge becomes pure and poor arrogance in front of everybody.

Thanks and sincere congratulations Reinhard-
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:19 pm

Klaus, the text is certainly not the first thing to catch your eye. Thank you Reinhardt for giving us the translation. It confirms what most of us were likely seeing depicted. As Luigi noted, your contributions here are always outstanding examples of your deep knowledge of and passion for Japanese arts and culture.
Alan

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Vlad
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby Vlad » Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:32 pm

I have come across this add from our dear friend Robert (Sagemonoya) on the back cover page of the 2010 DARUMA magazine and wondered if it might also qualify the depicted inro set for this thread? Or possibly at least the netsuke... :)
Attachments
002.jpg
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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souldeep
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby souldeep » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:40 pm

"Zufu, zufu, chu, chu! Zu! Zu!“ :lol:

Excellent posts and thanks for sharing.

On a digression.. I think your wonderful piece may just have provided us with an attribution for Alan's bizarre merdemon. Alan.. What's the comparison like? I can't find the photo right now.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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KPR
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby KPR » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:49 am

A very similar Netsuke is found in Hurtig's "MASTERPIECES OF NETSUKE ART" no. 358. The description is: Sea palace in a clam.
I know two other identical pieces with a similar description.

For a Sea Palace, the waves and magnificence of the house are missing.
In my opinion, it is a street scene in YOSHIWARA. A visitor in front of a brothel.
For more information google "Yoshiwara"
It is a truly hidden Shunga, since it was always described incorrectly (in my opinion).

Yoshiwara.jpg
Klaus

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:38 pm

Other than the fact it is a scene inside a clam shell does the piece show any other evidence this may be the Yoshiwara? Anything about the landscape on its top for example?
Alan

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KPR
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby KPR » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:48 pm

I do not see any sea palace.
The scene in the clam reminds me on the old pictures of Yoshiwara (Google).
Larger house with stairs, In every window a person, stealthily sneaks a man past.
Enclosed the picture on the Shunga clam. Certainly, this landscape no longer exists.

Download (6).jpg
Klaus

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Shunga discussion - different grades

Postby AFNetsuke » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:55 am

Thank you, Klaus. Yoshiwara it is. I missed the "sneaking a man past" which seems obvious now.
Alan


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