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Ceramic netsuke

Discussions, identification and analysis of Ceramics
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Tama
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby Tama » Sun Jun 19, 2016 10:48 pm

That is lovely Jan, what did it go for???

For you Judy, a recumbent horse! Late 19C I am leaning toward Kyoto ware. It's not snow white like Hirado ware.
Last edited by Tama on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jbjtennyo
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby jbjtennyo » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:54 am

Love the horse, Jill. Do you own that one? I don't remember seeing it before, but perhaps just forgot. I also like the recumbent shishi Jan. It would have been a great example for your collection.. Do you remember what it went for?
Judy

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:31 am

I'm not sure Hirado wares need be snow white. Hoping someone can enlighten us on that issue.
Alan

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Bakurae
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby Bakurae » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:30 am

Jill, Jan, Judy, thanks for your appreciative words about the blue rat. I did feel lucky to get him.

I'm glad that Jan, in posting the wonderful lapis blue (?) shihshih, mentioned how different the colors look in different images. You'll see that in my rat photos too. Different lighting conditions can vastly change the way the colors appear.

Jill and I were talking today about the interesting treatment of the underside of the rat, with the toes apparently rendered by the marks of a forked tool drawn through the wet clay, and left unglazed. Does anyone have further information on that practice in netsuke or other Japanese figural ceramics?

Lovely horse, Jill.

Alison

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jbjtennyo
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby jbjtennyo » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:21 am

Alison, I read somewhere- and I will have to check a couple of possibilities, that it was not uncommon on some of the well done ceramic pieces, for some finishing touches to be added by hand - by shaping/carving the molded greenware before it was fired. The greenware is soft and easy to carve and gouge while still slightly damp, and with care can also be done when dry, before firing-, so details like the toes of your rat can be added easily at that stage. The eyes, mouth and hair detail of my karako were enhanced in that way as well. I will see if I can find the book I read it in.
Judy

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jbjtennyo
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby jbjtennyo » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:42 am

In Richard Silverman's "Adornment in Clay" on page 21, he has this to say:
"Hirado netsuke wer able to be produced in such large number because they were manufactured extensively though the use of multi-part molds. Once the molded parts were joined together, then netsuke would be additionally worked by carving and the application of glazes to diversify the finished works."
"In addition, one of the most distinctive elements of Hirado porcelain netsuke was the use of mechanism (karakuri), or moving parts. These colorful and playful details of the Hirado netsuke greatly added to their charm, novelty, and market appeal both in Japan and abroad.

Alan, in the same chapter, RS says this. " Early Hirado ware netsuke were painted with clear glaze to showcase the purity of the white porcelain, or glazed with a limited palette of blue, brown, celadon, and black. There were also examples utilizing a dark or light ivory colored glaze, (sometimes referred to erroneously as "Unglazed" that was then stained with a dark brown or black, which gave the surface the appearance of cared ivory or wood."
Judy

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Tama
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby Tama » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:41 am

What makes porcelain porcelain is kaolin. It is a white clay that is only found in particular pockets of the world. Kaolin makes a hard paste clay as opposed to ceramics using a soft paste clay. Porcelain can be lumped in with ceramic, however ceramic cannot be called porcelain. Kaolin gives porcelain that pure white color. I do not have my notes with me so I can post more when I return home on Friday. I am going from my memory that is like a sieve! Yes Judy, it's mine. I won it in a lot of four, 2 ceramics (horse and Chinese literati), a metal mask, and an agate monkey in January.

Notice I didn't use your name Alan!
Last edited by Tama on Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby AFNetsuke » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:50 am

Jill, I like the term "Chinese literati" for your piece.
In addition to white kaolin clay I understood that it was the vitrification caused by high firing temperature that results in the ceramic we call "porcelain". If my memory serves me I also recall that feldspar comes into the mix. But the final finished color of porcelain netsuke might not come out pure white because of the glaze that was applied although admittedly it was the pure white appearance of most porcelain and translucency that made it valued around the world. It is also tougher/harder than other "pottery" and stoneware.
Alan

lohrberg
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby lohrberg » Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:59 am

AFNetsuke wrote:I'm not sure Hirado wares need be snow white.


Hirado porcelain netsuke of a peach and a wasp.

The main body of this netsuke may be called snow white. The leaf is of brown/gold colour, the wasp's eyes dark brown. 4,8 cm.
This netsuke comes from the Frederick Maurice Jonas collection and is illustrated in his book Netsuke, published 1928 on page 29.
I gave some comments on F.M. Jonas, who was born and died in Japan. His life is told in a current exhibition in the Tobacco and Salt Museum, Tokyo. Compare the previous post about the exhibition,

Reinhard
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DSW90049
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Re: Ceramic netsuke

Postby DSW90049 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:13 pm

Thanking Jill, Richie Silverman and others for opening my eyes to the beauty and elegance of netsuke in these materials!
I've acquired several as a result. And, their modest pricing soothes tired and beat up wallets and personal finances too!

This one immediately above is breath-taking IMHO!
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David


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