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Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Discussions, identification and analysis of the vast range of woods used in Netsuke
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lmallier
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby lmallier » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:06 pm

Thanks Klaus, Dave and Judy. This is also my first netsuke with "provenance" :D

Louis
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jbjtennyo
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby jbjtennyo » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:03 pm

Provenance makes it fun, as you can not only find out about the netsuke, but also the people owned it before you.
Congrats!
Judy

carlomagno
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby carlomagno » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:41 pm

Beautiful Louis, but can you tell us about the provenance?
Nec spe nec metu

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Oishii
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby Oishii » Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:04 pm

Louis, this lovely snail is an enrichment to your (and every) collection !

Browsing through Alain Ducros' Promenades dans l'art Japonais, we found a few pointers on the minimal wear of certain wood pieces.
In the Chapter on Ikkan and Tomokazu we read :

"We have a magnificent Mermaid signed Chofu Ichiun, which is a sosho form of Ikkan (fig. 450-451). (...)
These subjects have not been treated by Tomokazu, but have indeed by Tadatoshi and Tametaka, of which Ikkan has never been the student.
We can ask ourselves at which period of his life he has taken up that theme again. The wear is not a criterion for dating, because some netsuke have been kept in boxes or have been worn very little, whereas others have been used intensively.
What is evident is that he copied one of the pupils of Tadatoshi, probably Tadashige of whom he was a contemporary."
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"Ikkan's Shojo have a boyish look. Most of them are seated, but there a few formal reclining ones with laboriously carved robes engraved with clouds, as can be seen here (fig.441).
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(...) They do not seem to have been worn. What should we think of such netsuke ? Are they works he did in his youth or are they some of his son's carvings ? These Shojo have a similar face but they are without any life. The reclining position may have been chosen to differentiate them. It is unlikely that they could have been made by the master Ikkan, rather, it is more credible to conclude that they are the work of his son, who died in 1904 when Ikkan's work was very much in demand for the western market. ".
Jan

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KPR
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby KPR » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:00 pm

For further comparison I would like to add my Ikkan Shojo. She has a very strong resemblance to Dave's Shojo, which I had in my hands. Surprisingly, the hair on the forehead is minimally worn.
In my experience, Ikkan Shojos are slightly smaller and hence finer than the Tadatoshi Shojos.
I do not understand these words from Ducros. "These Shojo have a similar face but they are without any life"
Which "life" is in a sleeping face? Incidentally, it (Fig. 441) is very much alive. The head is based on the hand, so the face is asymmetrically. I find this "very much alive".
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Klaus

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lmallier
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby lmallier » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:09 pm

carlomagno wrote:Beautiful Louis, but can you tell us about the provenance?

Thanks Judy, JC and Jan.
It is ex Daniel Rouviere collection n°32, 15/11/1991.

Actually it is untrue it is my first piece with provenance, I forgot I had a Tomonobu skull ex Duke of Gloucester, Christies 12-13/07/2006, n° 546... :oops: and another Skull and an Eagle with Namazu ex Dr Rudolf Poeschl Vienna (bought from Van Ham) :oops:

THere might be others :mrgreen:

Louis
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"Qui n'a pas les moyens de ses ambitions a tous les soucis" 
Talleyrand

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Oishii
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby Oishii » Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:46 pm

KPR wrote:I do not understand these words from Ducros. "These Shojo have a similar face but they are without any life"
Which "life" is in a sleeping face? Incidentally, it (Fig. 441) is very much alive.
The head is based on the hand, so the face is asymmetrically. I find this "very much alive".

Klaus, we didn't know what to make from that either. There is certainly expression in them, albeit somewhat sweetly subdued.
In the text it is not totally clear, but we got the impression that Ducros' negative assessment was pointed at the reclining models and not so much on the ones that are sitting ?
Jan

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DSW90049
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby DSW90049 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 2:34 pm

With due respect to Alain Ducros and his many valuable contributions, criticizing a netsuke depicting a SLEEPING Shojo as 'lacking life' rather overstates the obvious - of course she is lacking in life, SHE IS ASLEEP!!!.
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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jbjtennyo
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby jbjtennyo » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:02 pm

:lol: :lol:
Judy

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Minimal wear in wood pieces of Edo period ?

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:39 pm

I must disagree. A sleeping person (and presumably Mermaid or Shojo) looks very different than a dead one. I think I understand what Alain meant by "lacking life".
Alan


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