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Tokata Ivory

Discussions and analysis of Elephant Ivory
Peternz
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Location: Mahia, New Zealand

Postby Peternz » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:42 am

On another Forum lub41 said he doubts or concerns re the authenticity of a netsuke but did say
" The material, ivory, is very nice, in accordance with RK habit to carve with Tokata ivory"
If anyone can help Tokata Ivory is a really top grade, one authority says it is from Siamese Elephants.
To me it seems that the carver would pay more for Tokata Ivory than the run of the mill material.
Would anyone have a clue what ROUGHLY what you would expect him to pay more percentage wise for the top grade material.
Just your ideas.

Thanks
Peter Dunn

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AFNetsuke
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Location: Central California coast, USA

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:00 am

I've never read anything that quantitates how much more expensive top quality ivory or other materials cost in the Edo period. But I suspect in other records there must be something that gives relative values in terms of money or goods based on quality.
Alan

Peternz
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Location: Mahia, New Zealand

Postby Peternz » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:15 am

Alan.

Thanks for the reply.
I was really trying to work out if because of scarcity or cost, it may have been out of the afford-ability of copy cats/forgers. Until lub41 told me it was Tokata I did not know, and had really doubted the material, even to the extend of a hot pin test, very relieved it was not plastic.
I think CLIVE will know.
Peter Dunn

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LUBlub
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Postby LUBlub » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:04 am

Peternz wrote:>I think CLIVE will know.


Luigi from Greece

Clive is probably the top authority in "materiale" in europe and he will give a good lesson....
As general information: KM used to carve
mostly with Tokata ivory.
Alan: in one of the books of R Bushell he wrote some comment about the Tokata value....idem for other materials like Horn Bill in absolute the more expensive and rare of all materials.
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

Peternz
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:52 pm
Location: Mahia, New Zealand

Postby Peternz » Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:18 pm

Thanks lub41.
Went to my copy of Bushell/Reikichi.Netsuke Handbook

Reikichi. States that Kaigyokusai always used top Tokata, and that it was exorbitantly priced. And as you say the Horn Bill was the most sought after.
I have found other mentions in other books I have, there is nothing specific really repeats of the understanding of Reikichi.

Thank you
Peter Dunn

Peternz
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 9:52 pm
Location: Mahia, New Zealand

Postby Peternz » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:09 pm

Should have said earlier, Masatoshi, in the Art Of Netsuke Carving, goes into great detail, as to where on the tusk the Tokata was removed.

Peter Dunn


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