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Interesting article on ivory and dating ivory...

Discussions and analysis of Elephant Ivory
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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:12 am

http://www.ivoryauthenticityandage.com/

The ivory netsuke used on this site seems a bit questionable, no?

SC

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AFNetsuke
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Postby AFNetsuke » Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:27 pm

150 Euros to do ivory dating. Because it would also include the time the ivory was on the animal and elephants live a long time it might be useless in proving a piece is antique if using the "more than 100 years" rule. Now if the pieces is dated 200 yrs with a tight standard deviation that would be better. When I saw the blowtorch in one of the first photos I had to look twice make sure it was not being applied directly to the head of an object. Good news...it didn't melt....bad news....your ivory is burned to a crisp...
Alan

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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:35 pm

LOL! Image

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DSW90049
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Postby DSW90049 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:54 pm

Most interesting.
It is inevitable that techniques for dating ivory will become more accessible, but, as Alan notes, if dating time includes the time the tusk belonged to elephant, it may make it seem older.

There are some interesting observations about faking, tool marks, real or faked cracks, etc.
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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LUBlub
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Postby LUBlub » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:39 pm

SteamCollector wrote:http://www.ivoryauthenticityandage.com/

The ivory netsuke used on this site seems a bit questionable, no?

SC[/Q

Museo d'Arte e Scienza

Milan - Italy

The only museum worldwide dedicated to
ascertaining the authenticity of antique art objects

UOTE]

Yes...because the others are the third world...British Museum, Metropolitan Museum etc etc are just small shops...better to know...
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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chonchon
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Postby chonchon » Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:36 am

Not sure how useful this will be but maybe some customs posts might adopt a machine?
http://www.japantoday.com/category/crime/view/scientists-reveal-new-way-to-track-illegal-ivory
Piers

Size is something.

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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:58 am

At a cost of $500.00 per test, they probably won't be testing our antique netsuke any time soon. If the cost is reduced substantially, then maybe this carbon-14 test will become part of a CITES certificate that will be a permanent record of each and every ivory piece submitted for legal ownership status.

SC

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DSW90049
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Postby DSW90049 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:34 pm

BINGO!

"“We’ve developed a tool that allows us to determine the age of a tusk or piece of ivory, and this tells us whether it was acquired legally,” said Kevin Uno, lead author of the study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
“Our dating method is affordable for government and law enforcement agencies and can help tackle the poaching and illegal trade crises,” said Uno, a postdoctoral researcher at Columbia University.

"The test costs about $500 and uses a technique of analyzing the amount of carbon-14 in the animal tissues."
This is what we've all been waiting for.;)8-) The carbon-14 dating test is well worth $500, and, of course, it will become cheaper over time. The results of the test are the ticket to ending all the madness when it comes to antique ivory.
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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DSW90049
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Postby DSW90049 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:15 pm

Because this is, or should be, important, and because links often go stale after a while, here's the article in its entirety:

"Scientists reveal new way to track illegal ivory


CRIME JUL. 02, 2013 - 05:11AM JST ( 0 ;)
ImageElephant tusks are displayed before they are destroyed in Manila, Philippines, on June 21, 2013AFP

WASHINGTON —

Wildlife crime investigators hope to crack down on illegal elephant killing with a new tool for analyzing ivory that uses nuclear test residue to determine the age of a tusk.

Tens of thousands of elephants are hunted for their ivory each year. As few as 470,000 African elephants remain, making them a vulnerable species while the Asian elephant is endangered and may number about 30,000, experts say.

Despite international agreements that ban most raw ivory trade from Asian elephants after 1975 and African elephants after 1989, the slaughter continues in large part because police lack the means to tell the age of the ivory.

“We’ve developed a tool that allows us to determine the age of a tusk or piece of ivory, and this tells us whether it was acquired legally,” said Kevin Uno, lead author of the study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

“Our dating method is affordable for government and law enforcement agencies and can help tackle the poaching and illegal trade crises,” said Uno, a postdoctoral researcher at Columbia University.

The test costs about $500 and uses a technique of analyzing the amount of carbon-14 in the animal tissues.

Carbon-14 was formed in the atmosphere by above-ground nuclear tests in the 1950s and 1960s, conducted by the United States in Nevada and the Soviet Union in Siberia.

Levels peaked in the 1960s and have been declining ever since. The test devised by scientists should be effective for about another 15 years, by which point the atmospheric levels of carbon-14 will return to pre-nuclear-test norms.

Researchers tested their technique on 29 animal and plant tissues—including elephant tusks, hippo tusks, canine teeth and monkey hair as well as grass from Kenya—each collected on known dates from 1905 to 2008.

They found that various tissues that formed at the same time had the same levels if carbon-14.

The four oldest samples were from animals that died from 1905 to 1953, and they had the least carbon-14 because they died before atmospheric nuclear weapons tests.

“With an accurate age of the ivory, we can verify if the trade is legal or not,” said Uno.

“Currently 30,000 elephants a year are slaughtered for their tusks, so there is a desperate need to enforce the international trade ban and reduce demand.”

African elephants are in “sharp decline” due to illegal poaching for the international ivory trade and habitat loss. Asian elephants are endangered with a population ranging from 25,600 to 32,750, according to the World Wildlife Fund.

About 70% of smuggled ivory is sold in China, and the United States is the second largest market."

© 2013 AFP
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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peter
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Postby peter » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:20 pm

I think this new method help for to clarify for the custom office the real age of the ivory.
OK ower 100 years antique and no any problem.
But for me as a collector not giving perfect result for the age of the netsuke.
I think we discussed a similar perspective about this in the thread statistic, because this information maybe or sometimes making fals result for the netsuke carving age.Few old piece very good condition but few new maybe showing more abrasion.
Why? the earlier pieces no any problem and maybe they will became pre edo period, but the contemporary carvers also could carving from very old material.
The result for the custom officer it is old netsuke, against my opinion, because I know this is a nice contemporary netsuke, made from old material.
A big difference.
The test showing for us the birthday or the death of the elephant??? between them possible 80 years or more
I think must to focusing for our own books and learn more and more continuously.
Same as Vlad with his new books.
Plus the consultation with collectors and experts.as Stan making.
Peter


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