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New INS Members Benefit - Online journals are here...

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:00 am

Vlad wrote:Sorry Martyn, I am not sure I understand what you are saying. I don't think anybody argues about this being a great addition.


I guess it's me not understanding you Vlad - thought on the previous page you said it was great.

I think it's a great addition. SC has said it's a great addition, a number of your BOD colleagues think it's a great addition. It is Christmas time and the forum traditionally goes quiet this time of year but the response hasn't been as positive as I had hoped.

Vlad wrote:How is this going to help increase the membership, if now one may pay once in 5 years to get all those copies available to him?


Fair point. You are of course right. Someone could become an INS member, say each 5 years, and then download the last five years of PDF's.

Another counter argument - Someone may just download and send to a "friend".

There are many counters but some "reasonableness" needs to be afforded to the membership. I don't believe even a minority of the membership is out to cheat the INS. Note I said believe - If you have evidence to sway my belief feel free to share it.

Lets just say that a new reduced membership fee could was implemented for electronic only format. I'm going to pluck a figure out of the air here, but lets say $50 a year to receive only the electronic journal version.

Do you think for most $50 a year becomes an attractive proposition to get sent the latest journals electronically? Just a reminder - for the money we spend on Netsuke do you think the new collectors would go through the rigmarole of becoming a member by-annual to get one year for free?

Yes you are right - it's a potential issue but every idea has a counter ;)

No idea is perfect - but let's not stop suggesting ideas. It's just about finding the one that ticks the most boxes rather than it being the perfect solution.

Vlad wrote:who you refer to as "all of us", are we talking about?


Well again I said I "believe". I have faith in the forum regulars. I think we all want to see this forum and the INS grow. I re-quote my post below;

"I believe all of us still using the forum would like a way to help it's success and expertise grow"

I invite counter examples that support your argument otherwise.

Vlad wrote:The years of annual hefty donations from private sponsors may be well behind us. The future of this organization may heavily depend on what it does to attract new members, particularly using the available to us electronic tools including this Forum.


I won't pretend to understand what you guys on the BOD know but as you say - the society is going through change. Based on what you have shared here it suggests the source of the societies funding is drying up and the society needs to look to look to a new funding source.

My idea is to switch to a low premium high volume model. Make data available in electronic format to members as an international organisation. Allow access to this data via a lower membership fee and watch the membership ranks swell.

As an added bonus if the society went fully electronic journal you cut out in one move the high printing costs.

(Personally, like Luigi, I would pay more to keep getting the printed journals but this is directly counter productive to membership growth - it just pushes the society down the road of elitism).

Vlad wrote:We bring this issue up at every BOD meeting, but no easy solution has surfaced yet.


Yes it's a gamble Vlad - but you raise the real problem in your comment regarding funding above. You also say the issue has been discussed bod meeting after bod meeting but no change has yet been unanimously agreed. All I want to do is share another solution hopefully worth discussing at your table (of course it's just an idea to stimulate debate).

Unfortunately an organisation only has so long (usually intrinsically linked to its credit line) to agree on a future strategy before it may find the options it debated on the table start to fall off.

PS No I haven't read the financials. Could you share a link if you have one?
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:21 am

If I am not mistaken, a financial statement is published annually in the INSJ. Well, maybe not the past couple of years, but it was published in the spring 2011 issue.

SC

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:31 am

Aha - what a result. I can go to our new "online" PDF's to find it. Thanks Dave :D
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

mss
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Location: Florida, South Carolina, USA

Postby mss » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:19 pm

Comments have been solicited. Personal thoughts:

The new Member's section is a wonderful addition. An updated/current index will be an exceedingly useful resource to those of us who occasionally write journal articles.

I would hope there will eventually be a section where members' issues could be debated/discussed without neophyte readers becoming confused or distracted by some of the arguments.

My opinion on the publication of previous Journals is that we should be magnanimous in sharing what is essentially a labor of love.

mss




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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Mon Dec 22, 2014 1:34 pm

Martyn, here is the one for 2010. I couldn't find more current ones.

SC
Image
Attachments
2154310_Financial_Statement.JPG

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:11 pm

mss wrote:I would hope there will eventually be a section where members' issues could be debated/discussed without neophyte readers becoming confused or distracted by some of the arguments.


Thanks for your feedback Milton :)

The good news is that all of you that have posted so far appear in favour of a members area forum - in the background we are discussing how to approach the technical feasibility of this working with the current membership list.

Watch this space :)
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:17 pm

SteamCollector wrote:Martyn, here is the one for 2010. I couldn't find more current ones.

SC
Image


Thanks Dave. On first glance, and if we split the income from the event (as the INS doesn't have a convention each year) in half to cover two years, the donor amount was around 4% of the overall income.

Not to be sniffed at, but not as devastating as I initially thought.

It could be that Vlad's reference to donations reducing already referenced this year as an example.

The total journal expense is a real eye opener for me!
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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Vlad
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Postby Vlad » Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:36 pm

I am not sure how from the only promoter of the member's part of the Forum for about five years now I was made look like the only one who was against it, but that's OK. ;)

The example of the 2010 financial report is not the best one, as it has the Convention revenue and is still in red. Only Marsha's $50,000 generous grant took us out of there in the following years. Just look at the membership fees vs. the Journal publication/circulation costs plus the administrative charges and you will get the picture.:roll:

I am glad somebody else finally became interested and concerned with this. I just suggest to take it from here and to move on rather than getting to square one again. I hope Alan, as the BOD liaison to the Forum will coordinate the effort.
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

carlomagno
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Postby carlomagno » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:26 pm

IMHO somebody here is not doing the right maths. INS has one only product, our names as potential buyers. That product is to be sold to the dealers and specialized auction houses: This "selling" is performed through
a, the forum
b, the journal
c, the chapters activities
d, the convention
the knowledge acumulated via forum or journals or chapters meetings belongs to the members and the widest the spreading of this knowledge, between the members, the better the turnover for the dealers so who should have to pay the gross money to keep oiled this machine?
Nec spe nec metu

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Vlad
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Postby Vlad » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:14 am

The quick answer is - dealers already think they are overpaying and are not getting the return on their investment. And it's mostly them, who own the balk of the knowledge, and it is not in their best interests to give it up for free (other than on this Forum maybe;), as it is not attended by too many of their primary customers).

It is a decision made long time ago, when changing the name and switching from Hurtig's ruling, that the INS will be ran not by dealers, but by collectors, and will be registered as a non-profitable organization to benefit the most from the charitable donations.

The question is - will it last in the current circumstances and how does it need to change to survive?
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)


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