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Boxwood "man with fish"

Events, meets and discussions around the New York chapter.
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malakei
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:31 pm
Location: Canada

Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby malakei » Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:51 pm

I am new to this forum but I have been a collector of Netsuke for a few years. I have been dormant for the past ten years in that I have stopped buying netsuke as too many fakes were appearing on the market. I moved to Manitoba Canada from the UK and took my very small collection (20) with me and now I am going to auction these pieces on a famous auction site.
As I have been away from the collection side for ten years i have noticed several of the signed pieces are being sold on said site as new. Now, this is very worrying as it seems now the market has flooded with these new netsuke and they look to have signatures of old master carvers.
Can this be allowed?
I would therefore like to ask the opinion of the forum on a number of boxwood netsuke that I've owned for over 18 years.
Thank you in advance :) :) :)
Attachments
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MVC-008S.JPG
MVC-009S.JPG
MVC-010S.JPG
MVC-006S.JPG
mkd

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Vlad
Posts: 5079
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby Vlad » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:24 am

Let me be the first to welcome you to our new lounge, mkd! Unfortunately, this also means that I will have to be the barer of bad news, I am afraid. The piece you have shown us has all the characteristics of a piece not much older than 18-20 years, when you have purchased it, I am afraid. Let's see if others will agree.

And yes, anybody can put any signature on his, or on any other piece of his choice to sell it for more money. It's not the signature, but the carving quality and stile, which determine the authenticity of a piece to a certain period and a workshop. The signature may only match, which is a bonus, or not match, which formally will signify a fake, or just a later work of a carver using the very same signature for some reason in that case.

It is totally up to you whether to show us your other pieces, but we will be happy to take a look and to tell you what we think, if you do.
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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AFNetsuke
Posts: 6272
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:14 am
Location: Central California coast, USA

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:04 am

We hope your other pieces will hold more promise. Welcome to the Lounge.
Alan

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chonchon
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby chonchon » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:06 am

Sadly, I would have to agree with Vlad and Alan. Just a gut feeling, to be fair, but this Netsuke has (to me) all the attributes of the ones you are worrying about, of which there are hundreds of thousands on the market.
Piers

Size is something.

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malakei
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:31 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby malakei » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:19 pm

Thank you for your welcome and your opinions are much appreciated. I have a small collection but have been away from the action for a little over ten years. I've stopped collecting because I was unable to tell the fakes from the originals. My knowledge is not that good and I can not read signatures, so ten years ago I made a couple of bad buys at certain auctions and decided to stop collecting until I gained more knowledge. I never did gain that knowledge and decided to join this forum as a beginner and learn from the members who know about collecting.
Can anyone tell me a good book to buy on netsuke collecting?
I have one netsuke that I have owned for over 30years that I'm pretty sure is correct but would like to ask the forum if they could give me their opinion. I also have put another netsuke on auction on a big auction site but as I am not sure the originals from the fakes I start the bidding on $1.00us.
I will put some pictures on and an explanation of how I came to start collecting netsuke.
I hope the members don't mind advising me.
THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOU OPINIONS IN ADVANCE.
mkd

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malakei
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:31 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby malakei » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:05 pm

This is I'm hoping an original and would like the opinion of the forum. I'm sorry the signature is not very clear.
Attachments
BoyonOx.jpg
BoyonOx02.jpg
BoyonOx03.jpg
BoyonOx05.jpg
BoyonOx01.jpg
mkd

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chonchon
Posts: 6912
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Japan

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby chonchon » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:25 pm

The signature looks as though it has been added in a scribbled form with the deliberate aim of deception, although the second kanji 月 for moon is pretty clear. This is not a good sign. The whole composition has a strong Chinese tourist feeling to it, but even so it should be worth much more than $1 to many people!
Piers

Size is something.

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Vlad
Posts: 5079
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby Vlad » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:07 pm

I agree with Piers on all counts. Doesn't look much older than the second part of the 20th century...
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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malakei
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:31 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby malakei » Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:57 pm

You guys are brilliant but I think even though the signature is blurred the consensus on the auction site is that it's good. It has gone from $1.00 to $222.50us and still has almost 3 hours to run. I am going to show a better picture of the signature. I'm a very happy bunny. :o :o :o :o
Attachments
MVC-100S.JPG
mkd

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tanukisan
Posts: 590
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:30 pm
Location: Solihull , West Midlands

Re: Boxwood "man with fish"

Postby tanukisan » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:01 pm

Sadly the placement of the 4 legs of the ox make for a far from rounded smooth carving when you roll it around in your hand as netsuke should. Agree that this is a relatively modern non Japanese carving - a NLO ( Netsuke Like Object). That it is now at 222.50 USD and rising that's good news for you, less so for the potential buyer!

John 



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