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Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

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frankgreddick
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Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby frankgreddick » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:46 am

In everyone's opinion, where do you see both the craftsmanship and appreciation of netsuke in 25-30 years? Will it burn out, or will it still be as strong as it is today?

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Vlad
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby Vlad » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:37 am

Great question! I think prices of the authentic 18th century netsuke will continue doubling every 10-15 years. And what about you?
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

frankgreddick
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby frankgreddick » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:38 am

I agree with the older pieces, those in my eyes will appreciate in value as the years go on. How about contemporary netsuke?

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AFNetsuke
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby AFNetsuke » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:33 am

Look at auction prices over time. Some contemporary seems to not hold value well. Others do.
Actually, im not sure what your question was. "Where do we see craftsmanship"? I see improving carving skills but will they be accompanied by the innovation and genius of the true artist or just acquisition of technical skills? Who knows...
Alan

frankgreddick
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby frankgreddick » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:29 pm

Another question would be, are people still going to be collecting netsuke in 30 years?

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LUBlub
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby LUBlub » Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:39 pm

frankgreddick wrote:Another question would be, are people still going to be collecting netsuke in 30 years?


Ask questions that only God or fate may respond...about 30 years and contemporary netsukes,...how old are you?....
But by logic, and if the world does not collapse economically as in 1939, the art of netsuke will be more and more appreciated and valued because the authentic and beautiful netsuke will be always more rare and their prices (in my humble opinion by observing the trend of the last 20 years with rare exceptions) more and more high.

In my analysis I include also those normally call as modern or contemporary netsuke, the so-called great contemporary masters netsukeshi in Japan or have died or are very old people, an example Sempo (deceased) or Kangyoku (75 years old and nearly blind) but also others. ..when a contemporary netsuke is of high or very high quality, and i include the Western netsukeshis masters like Janel Jacobson, Jim Kelso, Natalia Popova, and other important modern British carvers living or deceased their values ​​are very high.
why ?, simple, because art at a high level and beauty have no time, old or contemporaray - after 1920 - only the preference and choice of collectors, very personal tastes, some ones prefer Edo pieces, other Meiji, other Modern (example Takamado collection and
contemporary netsuke also in the British Museum - the 100 Masterpieces Book of the Museum -
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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DSW90049
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby DSW90049 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:27 pm

Beloved old wood netsuke will be appreciated more and more as ivory problems persist. Stag will also appreciate steadily. Barring world economic collapse, a 50/50 chance (& even that could make them more valuable [the flight to collectibles]), I see new generations of serious collectors who research and study and have increasing knowledge and experience from being involved with INS and people they meet through INS. .

The ivory bar door may also open slightly if more reliable, less expensive testing can satisfy authorities as to legitimacy of antique status and, if so, then well documented, certificated antique ivory prices will skyrocket in value.

Many many collections containing the finest pieces known will come to market, offering once in a lifetime chances, so save your money. Less is more: buy the best you can afford after thoroughly researching and buy what you love, not what somebody else says you should love. Most collectors regret buying too many pieces.

Modern or Contemporary are a complete wild card to me - eventually they will become more widely collected, but I have no idea when. Some modern carvers' work will steadily appreciate.

These are all personal guesses - past performance is no indicator of future values.

Most of all, ENJOY.
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

frankgreddick
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby frankgreddick » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:15 pm

Excellent points, in regards to ivory I do not see a fully legal market in the near future. I do however see a reduction in the severity of the laws. I do see a future where legitimate antique pieces will be back in auction houses.

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Vlad
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby Vlad » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:11 pm

frankgreddick wrote:...I do not see a fully legal market in the near future.


Why? It is fully legal now in the States, besides three of them, which rushed out with their judgement ahead of the Fish and Wild Life hoping to please the new presidential family and to get some extra credits... Oops!
It is also totally legal in all other civilized (and not only) countries in the world. What makes you think it should change for worse in the first place?
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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DSW90049
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Re: Netsuke collecting in the immediate future

Postby DSW90049 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:27 pm

I join Vlad's "Why" comment.
I foresee that there will be a market in the future for properly certified antique ivory netsuke and sagemono - a fair and workable market to restore commerce, and import/export rights in and out of the U.S.

I must correct what Vlad said about ivory currently being fully legal in the U.S. states, however - ivory, even antique, is illegal to buy, sell, or import and export, and also "possession with intent to sell" is illegal in New York, New Jersey and California. Also under both major US Federal Laws, the ESA (Endangered Species Act) and the later 'Elephant Protection' laws, the illegality is the same, except that the ESA fully recognizes Antique Ivory status, however there are many impediments to actually obtaining that recognition, and more regulatory developments are expected.

State and federal US law is very much in flux and nobody knows what incoming President Trump will do once he is sworn in as US Pres. on 1-20-17 with a fully Republican Congress waiting to do his bidding.

But, please do not take legal advice from me in this format; what I write on this Forum are my opinions as a very interested collector with four decades of legal practice experience and fairly good working knowledge and almost a decade of experience and education in this tiny world of Japanese Art, involving Netsuke and Sagemono, and what I can read and research in my very extensive library.
- although I am in my 40th year of law practice, none of my Forum posts are intended to give specific legal advice; for that, you really need to consult your own lawyer, as differences in facts as applied to existing law, which, itself is in a state of flux, make it so that the only legal advice on which you can and should rely is that given by your own lawyer in the confidential protections of the attorney client privilege, and, only after your having provided your lawyer with the benefit of all the facts and circumstances, and allowing your lawyer to research your specific situation, should you be seeking a legal opinion on which you can rely - EVERY legal case or situation is unique, and law is not a science.
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David


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