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Please let us know what features you think could improve the forum. Remember the work is done for free and the love of Netsuke so be gentle with ideas.
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DSW90049
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Postby DSW90049 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:54 pm

Clive said:

"I raise this not to be unnecessarily critical of past inaction and misjudgements but because those past threads clearly suggest that the biggest challenge to our making progress on this issue has always been the INS leadership's reluctance to make difficult decisions. Will the INS under your leadership make the decisions that are needed or is it going to be just more of the same old same old ?"

Clive, I think we do far better looking ahead to what this project can do to meet all our needs than rehashing the, as I said previously, book-length history of this Forum.

Again, I have some confidences which I believe must be protected, including yours.

But, the past is over . . . and we don't know the future, so . . .
let's deal with the NOW, and; get all the constructive thinking of our members (including your own) on the new proposal for the modular system, and get this up and running.

Last, please don't ask me to comment on past INS Leadership.
We should be thankful for all that past INS Leadership has accomplished in this rapidly changing world. I've been President for about 4 full months now; I appreciate this chance to add to the accomplishments of past INS Leadership, and to further develop not only this Forum, but also INS, in its worldwide scope and outreach.

P.S. I think you know me, personally, well enough to know that I have no reluctance to make difficult decisions, when warranted. Both Martyn and I have racked up hundreds of dollars in international calls, prior to switching over to What'sApp and I've lost count of the hours he and I have spent working on this latest innovation.

P.P.S. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT, CLIVE ~ (just saw your response above which was posted while I was writing this post) ~ it means a lot!
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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AFNetsuke
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Location: Central California coast, USA

Postby AFNetsuke » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:03 pm

Clive, please don't overestimate the amount of money spent on the Forum and as a result what we would save. As an INS member I'll PM you with a couple of details. Our financials were reported to the Board again in September but are not appropriate for display here on a public forum.
Alan

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Clive
Posts: 1758
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:52 am
Location: UK

Postby Clive » Sun Feb 07, 2016 6:52 pm

DSW90049 wrote:Clive, I think we do far better looking ahead to what this project can do to meet all our needs than rehashing the, as I said previously, book-length history of this Forum.

Again, I have some confidences which I believe must be protected, including yours.

But, the past is over . . . and we don't know the future, so . . .
let's deal with the NOW, and; get all the constructive thinking of our members (including your own) on the new proposal for the modular system, and get this up and running.


With all due respect David, since much of the past is a woeful tale of the same mistakes endlessly repeated, it is absolutely critical to deal with the "now" by acknowledging those mistakes. Since your previous post to Oishii made it pretty clear that you were not prepared to acknowledge those past mistakes, indeed you even went so far as to completely deny them, it's more than reasonable to expect that the same mistake might very well occur again if not addressed.

You asked for my thoughts and I'm giving them.

DSW90049 wrote:P.P.S. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT, CLIVE ~ (just saw your response above which was posted while I was writing this post) ~ it means a lot!


?? As I just said to Oishii, since Martyns proposal is pretty much the same solution I offered this forum many years ago, why would I not support it now? ... In fact I will be THANKING YOU if you now make the decisions to allow it happen.

:)


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LUBlub
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Location: Europe

Postby LUBlub » Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:00 pm

I wrote few posts back:

...certainly the INS understand this crucial moment and our voices....

and I wish the BOD have the real vision of future...
i

Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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Clive
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Location: UK

Postby Clive » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:14 pm

AFNetsuke wrote:Clive, please don't overestimate the amount of money spent on the Forum and as a result what we would save. As an INS member I'll PM you with a couple of details. Our financials were reported to the Board again in September but are not appropriate for display here on a public forum.


Alan, the cost for the INS website/forum and admin fee were listed in the accounts published in the 2015 Fall issue of the Journal. Since I've long been involved in the financial admin of two other web forums that use the more advanced, free, open source software, I agree with David's assessment that that significant savings can be made.

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AFNetsuke
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Postby AFNetsuke » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:59 am

The Forum itself is a small amount of total web expenses.
Alan

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Clive
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Location: UK

Postby Clive » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:05 pm

I understand that Alan, please recall that I had a behind the scenes admin role for this website for quite a while before you decided to quietly and unceremoniously remove me from that role because I refused to support some of your and David's ill-considered opinions over on the ivory thread. During that tour of duty, on a number of occasions I had to contact our forum provider, Website Toolbox to resolve serious problems with the forum so I'm pretty aware of the costs involved. I know that you like to pretend none of that ever happened (hell.. there's even a small possibility that you didn't fully appreciate what I had been doing, I never said anything after you did what you did.) but I do wish you'd stop always trying to create an impression that I'm somehow misinformed. It's pretty creepy given the history and entirely counter productive.

Wouldn't it be a lot better if we are to finally make real progress on this issue to start by being a lot more transparent about the finances involved. Why don't you start by publishing a full breakdown of the current web and admin expenses so other forum regulars can also understand what is going on.



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Clive
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Location: UK

Postby Clive » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:43 pm

No?? Hmmm.. Oh well. I guess you must have your reasons

So.. Where to now...

Martyn.. what's the next step then in the grand plan? :)

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souldeep
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Location: London

Postby souldeep » Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:52 pm

Well Clive. That's the million dollar question although luckily the proposals so far won't cost us that.

I will extract the solution from this thread and move it to a new thread so we can focus on how to move this forward.

It's a bit late right now so give me a day and I'll put up some ideas for next steps and see if the community agree with the approach.

I will now lock this thread and we can leave the past, well, in the past :)


Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.


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