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dealer section

Please let us know what features you think could improve the forum. Remember the work is done for free and the love of Netsuke so be gentle with ideas.
carlomagno
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Postby carlomagno » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:52 am

I think Martyn has throw a wonderful idea. Creating a dealer section in the forum not only we will avoid unpleasent situations in some threads but will allow dealers to show us specific pieces for apreciation and could be an extra source of financing for this site.
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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:12 pm

Thanks Carlomagno - the thread you reference was unfortunately deleted (I WISH that option could be removed from this forum) today in its entirety so many users won't have seen the debate. I have a copy of the full thread at work and will extract the important points from it tomorrow so we can help set the focus and hopefully attract dealers to post here. Appreciated 8-)
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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DSW90049
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Postby DSW90049 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:37 pm

I say, go for it, Martyn!
"There is no shortcut to netsuke collecting; it takes time, study and patience. The market is flooded with utterly worthless rubbish. . . . "
Netsukes: Their Makers, Use and Meaning, H. Seymour Trower(1898)~~~~David

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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:50 pm

As its stands, we have a dealer section located here: http://www.netsuke.org/netsukedealers

If I'm not mistaken, all of the dealers listed are already dues paying members and have always been invited to post on our forum, yet few do. If improvements can be made, then I'm all for it.

SC

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:09 pm

SC - I'm sure you already know this but the problem is not to be confused with dealers advertising. It's about handling intentions of incoming members in a manner that doesn't upset existing members. The more existing members get upset, the less they are likely to help out newbies, because they don't know who to trust investing the time sharing information with. As a newcomer myself I believe the invaluable time invested by members with myself initially is the very thing that encouraged me on to develop the passion and commitment I have for this art form today. It would be disappointing if this sort of initial support "clammed up" because of recent offending.

As the thread in question was deleted I don't know that it's ethical to re-post most of what was written so instead I will summarise and see what you all think.

On a number of recent threads (as well as historic) there has been incidents of members being offended that they have invested time and passion into providing information to new posters that we understood or suggested were potential new collectors.

Until I am informed otherwise the INS has no such policy against individuals visiting once, with the intention only to sell, submitting such posts (and nor could we really as it's not manageable).

Therefore in my mind, this issue will continue. It seems to me to make sense for us to find a way to understand who to invest time in and who to provide simple facts to. Dealers/Sellers often come on here to find out if what they have is of any value - and to be honest just want to hear the cold facts and go about their business. We don't and won't (as I understand it) ever provide any financial evaluation however comments from experts on the forum do allow a new poster to understand if the Netsuke they are sharing are NLO or of something more valuable in the Netsuke world.

So if we create a dealer/seller section - with a sticky at the top about what can be asked and what can't (and a disclaimer on any advice offered by members of the INS) we should go a significant step towards separating these two different types of approaches we receive weekly.

The idea here is to embrace it and support it within clear guidelines.

Does anyone disagree strongly with this - or have a suggestion for another way to manage the situation?

PS David - If this gets a green light are you or Alan able to create such a section as admin?

Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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NetsukeManiac
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Postby NetsukeManiac » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:24 pm

Martyn, here is a potential solution I PM'd to David the other day:

David,

I think I have come up with a cure for the problem of ebay seller inquiries on the forum. All we need is a new forum heading posted at the very top of the forum page (above General Discussion) titled:

'Inquiries for Dealers and eBay Sellers'
A place to ask questions about any netsuke or okimono you are trying to sell.

Set it up so that when someone posts a question under this heading, they automatically get banned from the forum!

Apparently David didn't think it was such a great idea. :D

SC

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Image

Yes SC - I think I'd have to side with David on this one... BUT - your title may make more sense than "dealer/seller section" which as the latter can be easily misinterpreted.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:20 pm

Oh I see Onimh - I'm really sorry as I don't think I'm being clear.

INS Dealers comment wherever and whenever on this forum - and it's great to have the expertise ANYWHERE on the forum. Just wish they would post more!

The 'Inquiries for Dealers and eBay Sellers' would be intended for those new registrations (with no expertise) that just want to find out if they have a Netsuke of any worth (although that worth is provided in opinions on the object posted, not monetary value).

The idea is to split apart seller inquiries from collector inquiries that are posted by new registered users (we know nothing about). These two types of inquiry require different responses and levels of effort invested from the existing membership.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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Vlad
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Postby Vlad » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:21 pm

My only concern is - who and why would even post questions in this section? Most don't even bother posting in the Beginners forum, immediately claiming they have some treasure in their hands. Their whole idea is the deception and not admitting their only goal is to sell. Why would they want to admit it right upfront? Wouldn't it defeat their goal?
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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souldeep
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Postby souldeep » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:39 pm

Vlad - I don't think it would defeat the goal. In fact it may well encourage more people to post. I also think sellers out there would like that kind of service. The new member whose post has now been removed had no intentions to deceive us and would of happily posted in a inquiry seller section.

So with the idea;

Inquiries for Dealers and eBay Sellers
Those wanting to make a quick sale get the information exactly as they want - and to the point. "It's an NLO" or "Oh this is a good piece by so and so made of X".

Beginning Collecting
Those new to collecting get our time invested. "Oh hi - welcome to the forum :-)" "how long have you been collecting?" "here's a list of books we recommend" "oh we have a meeting in this area at such and such a date" etc.

Importantly - members then know the target audience they are responding to can decide how much time to invest with either inquiry.

The whole idea is not deception my friend - could it be that new members out there only deceive because they read the forum and see the negative comments associated with sellers - so they have two choices - don't ask or pretend to be a collector. It's that pretending that has offended members on many occasions because of time and energy invested in what ultimately feels like a deception. Perhaps we are our own worst enemy in this if you catch my drift - we've created that monster. They shouldn't have to lie because it's not against forum rules for someone to pop on and just ask for an opinion then go sell the item. I believe with this solution it basically invites them to be honest because we are being open :)

Yes you are right about people posting in the right place - it's far from a perfect solution (does such a thing ever exist anyway) - just something to help us move towards a more targeted content.
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.


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