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On a blind date?

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LUBlub
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby LUBlub » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:39 am

As mentioned in other posts, the advantage of contemporary netsuke (and satisfaction as well as genuinity test) is that we can give it a date almost certain, or why artists they are still alive or for documentation on their life and created works.
One of the most precious pieces I own relates to the manuscript letter of Risshinsai Kangyoku when he completed his Junishi Set in HB.
Attachments
Translation letter Kangyoku.doc
A Original lleter of Kwangyoku - Copia.jpg
Translation of Kwangyoku letter - Copia.jpg
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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MakkaPakka
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby MakkaPakka » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:51 am

What a beautiful letter Luigi. I love to read translated Japanese writing, they use such lovely terms to describe emotions and situations.

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chonchon
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby chonchon » Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:56 am

Lub, consider other angles, for example 晴 could be the name, or part of, and 翁 O, or Okina could be a statement of old age.

On its own, 'Sei' 晴 could be read Sho/Jo, Haru, Harasu, Hare, Kiyoshi, Teru, Nari, etc. 8-)
Piers

Size is something.

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KPR
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby KPR » Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:01 am

Luigi, at your beautiful Samurai Netsuke, the representation and execution must lead to the artist.
An "academic" translator who may have no idea of Netsuke probably leads to the wrong track. It´s a so-called "blind date".
Klaus

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LUBlub
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby LUBlub » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:17 pm

Now I'm intellectually curious and fascinated in this exercise in the dark ..

Piers: yes, agree, the combinations are dozens, I have already observed them, but now on your basics and insights, and the inscriptions of the netsuke, how would you translate everything, name and date, and the symbols?
Klaus: unfortunately I am not allowed to name this known scholar but I assure you it is experienced (also) in history and traditions related to the theme of Netsuke ... and in fact also has a beautiful collection ...
Personally I have no idea of similarities with some specific artist to imagine, but more than ever in this case the memory of Neil Holton could give us a light, and who knows ?, remember similarities and other details ...Neil, if you read me thank you.
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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LUBlub
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby LUBlub » Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:24 pm

MakkaPakka wrote:What a beautiful letter Luigi. I love to read translated Japanese writing, they use such lovely terms to describe emotions and situations.


In fact Robert, all Japanese art expressions have this common denominator: delicacy, poesy, kindness, like breezes of fresh air, ...
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

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LUBlub
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby LUBlub » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:01 am

LUBlub wrote:Now I'm intellectually curious and fascinated in this exercise in the dark ..

Piers: yes, agree, the combinations are dozens, I have already observed them, but now on your basics and insights, and the inscriptions of the netsuke, how would you translate everything, name and date, and the symbols?[/b]


Piers, really I'm interested to know your personal translation, or translation combinations abut the artiist signature , and date related...
Tks.
Excellence in netsuke art don't need signature or pedigree, or age, only quality, aesthetics, beauty.

onimh
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby onimh » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:54 pm

souldeep wrote:
onimh wrote:If I knew wlhen Jugyoku was born (or age and year of death) I could date this frustrated ratcatcher of his to the year.
{Sorry for the poor quality pictures. I haven't updated these as yet.}

According to Ueda Reikichi born 1848. However from those photos (I'm only on phone currently), I have no clue whether it's the Jugyoku Ueda refers to.


Thank you Souldeep!
According to the signature he was seventy, plus something that looks like a 9, years old when he carved it (79 years old).
That makes it carved in 1927!!!
Thank you. A long-standing mystery solved for me-I haven't been able to find his birthdate.
If Jugyoku's death is known to have occurred before that year, then its back to being a mystery.

neilholton
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby neilholton » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:50 pm

souldeep wrote:
I'd asked how someone could present two dates.. 1810 and 1820 for two seperate stag netsuke in the same collection.

The dates are presented with a c. (Circa).



This is an interesting thread.

Martyn we can’t. Or probably better to say, with a very low degree of certainty we can.

When I started on the Netsuke trip dating was a vey difficult aspect. Today, Lisa often asks me if I am talking about a netsuke “how do you know its 18th Century” or the like and in yesteryear I found it very challenging to offer an answer. Now I find it easy, I just say I don’t know.

My basis on for dating a piece is always date the netsuke first, IE what does the netsuke tell you.

We now like to say first half or last half of a century, giving us a 50 year cushion. What's is your thoughts on that type of dating?

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jbjtennyo
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Re: On a blind date?

Postby jbjtennyo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:15 pm

Hi Neil,
I know you are asking Martyn directly, but I just have to say that I think your approach is the most honest one possible. I think after many years of studying and handling these netsuke, you get a good feeling for how old they may or may not be. I feel that with time, they do talk to you-- and also that they talk to YOU, Neil, specifically as you have been so thorough in your research and handling, you have a better connection and insight than most. But giving a window of time seems much more realistic, and as I said before- honest, because we can't date them exactly with no provenance or records. I think most collectors will appreciate this direction of dating.
I hope things are great with you.
Judy


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