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Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Discussion of different types of materials used for netsuke.
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Tama
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby Tama » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:37 pm

That comment is unnecessary.

frankgreddick
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby frankgreddick » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:53 pm

Vlad, show me an ivory netsuke with perfectly symmetrical straight lines.

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szwang
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby szwang » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:59 pm

Dear Vlad,

for these pair of NLO You mentioned:
But now some forgers try to imitate even that...


Fake ivory 3.jpg


But IMHO, these are quite obvious genuine ivory. Not authentic netsuke, but the material is elephant ivory.

sz

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Vlad
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby Vlad » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:18 pm

You see, SZ, and that's exectly the problem! ;)
Attachments
Fake ivory 1-1.jpg
Fake ivory 2-1.jpg
Fake ivory 2-2.jpg
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

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szwang
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby szwang » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Vlad, thanks for the enlarged photos, but still, I'm pretty sure it is ivory. What are you suggesting by enlarging them?

Sz

frankgreddick
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby frankgreddick » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:44 pm

He is agreeing with you on the material, the problem stems from the fact that most, not all modern netsuke are made from illegally poached ivory. Which is a problem that anyone in the asian antique market sees as a threat to the legitimate buying and selling of genuine antique ivory +-200year old.

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Oishii
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby Oishii » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:45 pm

Hi SZ,

as a comparison, I would like to show you my Mokugyo netsuke.
We also see a form of patterning, but imho this one is genuine ivory of mid 19th C.
Screen Shot 2016-12-06 at 21.43.11.png
Jan

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Vlad
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby Vlad » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:06 pm

frankgreddick wrote:He is agreeing with you on the material, the problem stems from the fact that most, not all modern netsuke are made from illegally poached ivory. Which is a problem that anyone in the asian antique market sees as a threat to the legitimate buying and selling of genuine antique ivory +-200year old.

Sorry, but "no" once again, the ones I have shown are 100% fake ivory, i. e. plastic in contrast to the one Oishii is showing. Now, it is you who should tell us all why? 8-)
"Man sieht nur, was man weiß" - "One sees only what one knows". Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749-1832)

frankgreddick
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby frankgreddick » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:07 pm

It was a mistake is my comment, I meant to write that you disagree not agree. Sorry for any confusion.

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szwang
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Re: Kagamibuta:Celluloid, Wood, Ivory or Other?

Postby szwang » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:42 pm

Vlad: Thanks for explaining. I get your point that this doesn't look like your fine antique ivory, but I'm still very sure this is genuine elephant ivory. I understand why you say it's not even ivory, the pattern doesn't look like the usual ones. But I've seen it many times, probably more often with larger scales carvings, tonkotsu or alike.

Sorry I can't explain my opinion clearer, hope someone with more expertise can help me explain this.

sz


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