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Exercises for beginning collectors

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:19 pm

Piers,
Thanks, your advice to look at fingers and toes came in handy with this monkey as well of expression of the face. This is something you can use in general for all NLOs? Patina and natural polishing is also giving an indication of age, but I think its very difficult. What can I look for? Also how can you best see if its hand versus machine carved. I’ve seen it on footpads with its angular design. But how can you dicover it on a figure?
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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HLH
Posts: 101
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:39 pm

Jan,
I think the two figures are genuine. I’ve guessed as they look a bit simular on the small photos. But the two lying creatures is a bit uncertain. Do you have some more photos that can make it easier to identify would be appreciated.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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Oishii
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby Oishii » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:53 pm

HLH wrote: I think the two figures are genuine. I’ve guessed as they look a bit simular on the small photos. But the two lying creatures is a bit uncertain. Do you have some more photos that can make it easier to identify would be appreciated.


Hi Henrik,
yes, your previous comments proved that you are getting to know the subjects and that your reading books is working ...

here are the six pieces that we were studying, all described as 18/19th century by the same seller.
Bigger pictures and adding views of the back/himotoshi will certainly make it easier to discern the older examples from the modern replicas/NLO's. We are not studying this as collectible, desirable examples, but just for the exercise's sake ;-)

Piece A
Sennin.jpg

Piece B
monkey.jpg

Piece C
netsuke3.jpg

Piece D
netsuke5.jpg

Piece E
deer.jpg

Piece F
Sarumiwashi.jpg
Last edited by Oishii on Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jan

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HLH
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:04 pm

Hi friends,

Thanks for supporting me in the art of distinguish between copy and original. I feel that some progress is achived but its a long way to go on a very narrow path. I really appreciate your comments and advice. And also I think, I can speak for many others who visit this forum.
Let the show go on. I’m ready for new missions.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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Oishii
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby Oishii » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:04 pm

HLH wrote:Hi friends,

Thanks for supporting me in the art of distinguish between copy and original. I feel that some progress is achived but its a long way to go on a very narrow path. I really appreciate your comments and advice. And also I think, I can speak for many others who visit this forum.
Let the show go on. I’m ready for new missions.


Hi Henrik !
we won't let you off the hook so easily ;-)
Unknown.jpg

(please copy the quiz-part of the post and fill out !)

1. All the six pieces in the post were described as 18/19th century pieces.
Which (A,B,C,D,E or F) do you think are indeed 18th or 19th century ?


.......................................

2. Rank the pieces : from the oldest in your opinion to the ones that you think are the youngest (Oldest first)

......... ......... .......... ......... ........ .........


3. Any idea on which ones could possibly be made in other countries than Japan ?

..................................


4. Which ones would you be happy to have in your collection ?

..................................


5. Which pieces have the nicest patina ? which ones do not have any patina ?

..................................


6. Which piece has the most wear, with some parts actually worn off ?

..................


7. Do you see any damage or missing parts ? Where ?

..............................................................


8. Piece F is a typical model of :

a) monkey seller
b) drunken man with a monkey on his back
d) a monkey trainer
e) Daikokuten, the lucky god, with a monkey
f) a karako that was playing with a monkey, but has now fallen asleep


9. Let's take a look at the signature in piece D : which statement is true for you ?

a) I would like to research this signature ; this is from a 19th C master.
b) the signature may be added later to this piece
c) the signature does not matter, it is insignificant, as the piece is an nlo.
d) it is a Chinese signature instead of a Japanese one.

10. Piece A is :

a) a Nio (temple guardian)
b) a Sennin
c) a blind beggar
d) a seller walking on a market
e) a daily life figure in 19th century Edo.
Last edited by Oishii on Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Jan

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souldeep
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby souldeep » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:15 pm

Wow.. Quiz time!! Nice one Jan!

Henrik.. You are getting class A INS member treatment right there :D
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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HLH
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:09 pm

Jan,
This is the... wild guesses...from the 'Swedish jury'.

1. All the six pieces in the post were described as 18/19th century pieces.
Which (A,B,C,D,E or F) do you think are indeed 18th or 19th century
?

.......A and C............................

2. Rank the pieces : from the oldest in your opinion to the ones that you think are the youngest (Oldest first)

.C, A, ..E, D, F, B.... ......... .......... ......... ..........


3. Any idea on which ones could possibly be made in other countries than Japan ?

......B. Made in China (Hong Kong)...........................


4. Which ones would you be happy to have in your collection ?

...C Nice patina. I've not seen fan made of feders...............................


5. Which pieces have the nicest patina ? which ones do not have any patina ?

..C, A, both nice. B, D, F not so nice................................


6. Which piece has the most wear, with some parts actually worn off ?

..C looks well worn................


7. Do you see any damage or missing parts ? Where ?

...E the head seem to have some kind but hard to tell.......................................


8. Piece F is a typical model of :

a) monkey seller
b) drunken man with a monkey on his back
d) a monkey trainer
e) Daikokuten, the lucky god, with a monkey
f) a karako that was playing with a monkey, but has now fallen asleep
A SMILING BOY


9. Let's take a look at the signature in piece D : which statement is true for you ?

a) I would like to research this signature ; this is from a 19th C master.
b) the signature may be added later to this piece . UNREADABLE
c) the signature does not matter, it is insignificant, as the piece is an nlo.
d) it is a Chinese signature instead of a Japanese one.

10. Piece A is :

a) a Nio (temple guardian)
b) A SEN-NIN
c) a blind beggar
d) a seller walking on a market
e) a daily life figure in 19th century Edo.
Last edited by ModTeam on Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited the quiz to make it more readable.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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ModTeam
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby ModTeam » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:32 pm

Henrik, the completely objective Modteam has scored your answer for Question 1.
Click to enlarge.
Screen Shot 2017-12-09 at 23.17.25.png

After doing your assignment, you will be able to get the answer to Question 8 right as well :)
Last edited by Oishii on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: added a sentence.
The ModTeam

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:00 am

Thanks Jan, I take that for obvious that the modteam is completely objective.

Q 8. F a karako is my amswer
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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HLH
Posts: 101
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:57 pm

HLH wrote:Thanks Jan, I take that for obvious that the modteam is completely objective.

Q 8. F a karako is my amswer


The "F" netsuke is a NLO. The hand and feet without details, the himotoshi isn't nice...
First I answered KARAKO because I thought it was a china boy but I couln't see the dress properly.

OK. I change this to SARUMAWASHI (sleeping monkey trainer)
Attachments
sarumawashi.jpg
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内


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