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Exercises for beginning collectors

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Oishii
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Location: Belgium

Re: Reading signatures

Postby Oishii » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:50 pm

Hi Henrik,

yes, you certainly are on the right track and thank you for the willingness to take part in our little fun exercises.
These might help other readers as well ...

we hope you do not find our approach patronising, that's certainly not what this forum would want.
In the phase that one is still feels a bit uncertain about the authenticity and quality of pieces, it might be a good idea to refrain for some time from hunting online through the various auction sites like Ebay etc.
If a new collector would save the money spent on 3 'dodgy' items and take the hand of a reputable dealer, this dealer could offer him one piece that the collector would be happy with for a long time ; it does not necessarily have to break the bank.

But for some the hunt online is a pleasure in itself ; it can be a bit addictive as well.
If you want to continue hunting yourself, we think we can help you to train your eye to differentiate items and make good choices.
Some of our members ask our members' advice before the sale to avoid mistakes ;

As a fun exercise :
These 6 pieces are all offered by the same seller on a big online auction site.
We do not say these are recommendable or desirable pieces for a collector, it's just for the exercise's sake.
The point is : they are all described as 18th and 19th century :lol:

Which pieces of the six would you - almost immediately - discard ? In other words, which ones are modern replica's ?
And which ones do you deem to be old and from the Edo period ? Which ones you are not certain ?
please ask questions if you are in doubt. If you want a few more pictures of the pieces that you doubt, let us kow ;-)
hunting.jpg
Last edited by Oishii on Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Jan

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:42 pm

Hi

I’ve as I said, studied netsuke for about a year now. By buying every book I can find and find time to read as much as possible. But theres only 24 hours a day. Joining INS was also an important step as the knowledge of netsuke is very limited in Sweden. Only one or two antique dealers trade netsuke. So the possibilities for handling and to explore different types is quite limited.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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souldeep
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Location: London

Re: Reading signatures

Postby souldeep » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:02 pm

HLH wrote:Hi

I’ve as I said, studied netsuke for about a year now. By buying every book I can find and find time to read as much as possible. But theres only 24 hours a day. Joining INS was also an important step as the knowledge of netsuke is very limited in Sweden. Only one or two antique dealers trade netsuke. So the possibilities for handling and to explore different types is quite limited.

Apologies - we really need a better solution that automatically links the INS membership database and the Lounge database together. Until that point, I have to be made aware by someone that a member of the forum is actually an INS member. You have now joined the orange brigade, Members archive will now be visible on the board index :)
Piglet: "Pooh?" Pooh: "Yes, Piglet?" Piglet: "I've been thinking..." Pooh: "That's a very good habit to get into to, Piglet." - A.A. Milne.

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chonchon
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Re: Reading signatures

Postby chonchon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:13 am

Jan, I would automatically reject three of those!
Piers

Size is something.

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:48 am

Now some exercise.
The one on the upper left looks very much as in authenticity ’Man with a stick and a bird’ Its a bit hard to see as you don’t show the base on the photo but the carving details seems alike.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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HLH
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:18 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:52 am

By the way. When I joined INS I doubled the Swedish representation to the society.
Let’s hope that the interest will Increase.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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Oishii
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Location: Belgium

Re: Reading signatures

Postby Oishii » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:00 am

HLH wrote:Now some exercise.
The one on the upper left looks very much as in authenticity ’Man with a stick and a bird’ Its a bit hard to see as you don’t show the base on the photo but the carving details seems alike.

Okay let's study them a bit more in detail ... we are certain you will find the differences striking.
Here are the two together :
* the one on the upper left.
* the one from authenticity "man with a stick and a bird".

This way they might be easier to compare.
Would you be able to see any differences as to the patina of the wood and the wear ?
Which of the two would be the oldest in your opinion ?
Which of the two is/are the modern replica(s) ?
Which one would be more suitable standing in a cabinet as a trinket and which one would be more likely to hang/sit on the obi of a kimono ?
Which one do you like most ? Do you recognise features of a "Sennin" in one of the two ?
Screen Shot 2017-12-06 at 10.50.02.png
Jan

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Hi Jan,
This is what first pop up when I start to analyze.
Interesting how you look at an item when you only see a part of it. I wouldn’t picked this one if I’ve got the second sharper picture. But I’ll try to compare and prove that the ”bird man” is a NLO.
The patina is very different - the glossy varnish lookalike compared to smooth polish on the old one. But hard to see as I belive that also can be faked. This is the tricky part. The bird man is standing on a small plattorm so its not even a netsuke. The carving shows some details but not very good ones. It looks a bit ’angular’ and impersonal.
But the age of the sen-nin 50-100-200 years old? A guess is 19th C.
I belive it could be Chokaro as he has something looking like a horse leg on his back. But I need to see more photos. What’s the criteria for a sen-nin? Also the himotoshi placement is important so it will hang properly on the dress.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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HLH
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Location: Sweden

Re: Reading signatures

Postby HLH » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:40 pm

I’ve a feeling that the monkey also is NLO with all fingers of the same length. I belive that Piers argumented this on another netsuke diskussed earlier.
Henrik

Be careful out there
鬼は外、福は内

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chonchon
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Location: Japan

Re: Reading signatures

Postby chonchon » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:08 am

Yes, I agree with you on the monkey. It is also out of balance, badly proportioned, and the face looks crude too. No soul! 8-)
Last edited by chonchon on Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Piers

Size is something.


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